takes a second okay there we go, we are recording it is Wednesday may 26 2021.

My name is monique lillard and we are doing a recording for the University of Idaho library oral History project concerning the video rental store in Moscow Idaho so I want to ask my interviewee here have you sign the waiver.

Benjamin Hardcastle: I have signed the waiver.

Monique Lillard: Very good, and can you just state your name for the recording.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Benjamin hardcastle.

Monique Lillard: Very good, very good i'm asking everybody to do that because it turns out, some people have been mispronouncing their names their whole lives so.

Now I know alright.

So just first just talking about the store and well, first of all, did you grow up in Moscow or.

Benjamin Hardcastle: I did.

I wasn't born here, but I grew up here.

yeah.

Monique Lillard: that's what I thought that's what I thought when did you first become aware of video stores, in general, and what was then Howard Hughes video, in particular, I.

Benjamin Hardcastle: think it was probably in the early 80s, you know, maybe, when I was in elementary school because.

People would have slumber parties that had a very small elementary school class, I think it was like 13 or 14 students total.

So we had during someone would have a birthday and people would get together they'd always rent movies we'd always rent the kind of classic SCI fi or horror movies from the 70s, and you know this was in the early 80s, so there was already tapes out there and I was aware of him.

Monique Lillard: yeah yeah did you go to Howard Hughes then or to some other video.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah when.

I remember Howard Hughes video specifically because my dad would go down and get movies on Tuesdays because it was also a day when a local pizza place pizza perfection had some kind of takeout deal so Tuesday would be like movies and pizza kind of day when I was little yeah.

Monique Lillard: yeah.

That would be watching with your family then.

Benjamin Hardcastle: they're.

Monique Lillard: watching over us on a Tuesday yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah what's up with the family asleep over stuff was more like yeah when it was somebody's birthday or around the like the kids from the class would get together and we watched the horror movies all night or whatever.

Monique Lillard: yeah yeah that's great and do you have any idea why it would always be the Howard Hughes video store that they'd go to.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Well that's because that one had the deal on Tuesday and.

Monique Lillard: Oh gotcha.

Benjamin Hardcastle: And they had like the dollar movies or 99 cent movies, on Tuesday.

yeah and that carried on for just ever I think until.

It was Tuesday and Thursday eventually when I was working there in the late 90s, then they became Tuesday and Thursday and then later it became like almost every day, except Friday and Saturday or.

Though but back in the 80s, when the video store when the industry was younger, it was just Tuesday, and I see remember the main competitor to our video the other kind of local stores in Moscow, they had a different day.

Monique Lillard: Okay, it was.

Benjamin Hardcastle: But but Tuesday, you see, was the day when the pizza perfection was doing their pizza deal so that would be the.

connection there for my dad yeah.

Monique Lillard: make sense, make sense.

How did you ever start working at the video store.

Benjamin Hardcastle: um I just.

kind of had a resume in the works for years, probably, but then I finally got a connection, because the guy I went to high school with who worked there.

For many years after high school I think he got out of high school, maybe a 91 and anyway, he moved to Seattle finally decided to make a change in the summer of 98.

And so I kind of had an inside track on that and, at the time I was a full time student at the ui and then I got the part time job.

His name is Sean foster he worked at scarecrow video in Seattle for ages to after that but but yeah he was a long term employees, so they needed a slot and I managed to fit it with my school schedule and.

yeah so would have been like was just before the Semester started so about August of 98 and I worked there for like four years starting.

I think August of 98 till October of 2002 that's when I stopped so.

Monique Lillard: But then you worked again there.

Benjamin Hardcastle: But then I worked there again in from 2011 the end of 2011 till about 2019.

Monique Lillard: Okay okay.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Well, and the most recent, but this is the old iteration when it was the Howard Hughes and it was part of the appliance store.

Right, that was a it was just like a corner of the building that Howard owned.

And they had that plants and mattress store in there and then I was there for those huge transition when they expanded our store by like I want to say 300%.

Because we just took over the entire building they expanded the video and the appliance and stuff moved to that location on the pullman highway.

So they moved into a larger venue and then the video store expanded, and that was a mass just just reshuffling we did it like.

They only close the store for like two days to do it, so it was two days of putting up shelves moving every tape every item it yeah it was like that was like over time, I remember.

Monique Lillard: What.

Benjamin Hardcastle: The shifts really weren't conducive to getting over time at the video store, but I did.

Then, like good because I mean you could go in there and work there was enough to do that if you wanted to put it 18 hour day, and you could because they were just closed, you know, and there was so much sorting and organizing that was, I want to say that was in.

When they did the expansion I don't it was like spring of 2009 I think.

Monique Lillard: Okay.

Benjamin Hardcastle: So it was like to.

bring us 2000 when it expanded So those are like the glory days and then my second tour of duty, it was the main street video, and it was a much smaller than you write down there next to the you know john salley and co op so.

Monique Lillard: On lake street.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah I mean yeah.

Monique Lillard: right was there a location before it was on fifth street or what is that fifth and Washington was their location before that or not i'm not sure I.

Benjamin Hardcastle: don't think so because I remember yeah it was being there back when I was renting people renting in the 80s and.

I mean I don't think I have my own account till like the early 90s, when I got out of high school, but my parents had one of the earliest accounts, I think my dad's account number was 50.

So he was.

The 50th person to open an account at the video store so yeah.

Monique Lillard: that's cool.

yeah and what made you want to work there, what what drew you to it.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Well, I like movies and i'm kind of good at being organized it's like a good for to be kind of organized and a little bit creative sort of a good job for that and it's sort of.

For people that like to retain trivial information well, which I do about like you know actors and directors and who did this, and when did that come out, you know that kind of thing so it's it's like you have that kind of a mindset, I think it.

You don't have to be that kind of person to work there, but I think that's for all the people that work there for just years that made like almost a career out of it.

And things like that that kind of there's like a cadre of people like that, and it seemed like that's the case now that i'm reading the autopsies of.

A video stores across the country like people there are people that really remember working there for just years and years in the 90s during the boom times and the early aughts.

And they always have that kind of personality that they were that way that kind of you know they're just really into the details of the industry.

Even though they're just the middleman they're not you know, but they have like to.

Be knowledgeable about Hollywood and like what this director does, and you know the foreign cinema, you know what's going on.

So it attracts that kind of employee, I think, at least for long term, although of course lots of people did it that we're just doing it as a job for a while, because it's fairly.

comfortable it's a fairly benign job I mean compared to working in a nursing home or dishwashing or things I other things i've done.

Monique Lillard: yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: it's pretty it's easy on you.

Monique Lillard: You don't have to get your hands dirty.

Benjamin Hardcastle: No, no.

Monique Lillard: yeah but you also love movies don't you.

yeah yeah.

yeah I mean i've.

Benjamin Hardcastle: studied up on it somewhat and i've watched a lot of movies and that's uh yeah it's kind of a just like with.

Like literature, to which I like to read a lot stuff there's always just more and more, I mean there's only so many movies, and so many books you're going to watch in your lifetime in a finite period of time and it's just amazing how much there is, I mean you could never do it.

Monique Lillard: Just right.

Benjamin Hardcastle: None of accept that yeah.

Monique Lillard: yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: you're gonna read.

Go ahead Oh, is that you're going to only read you know a few thousand bucks in your lifetime out of how many you know that exists, if you read 100 a year, which is a lot and yeah.

Monique Lillard: So surely a lot of people would walk in and ask you for recommendations for movies, did you kind of keep that in mind for them a hike they've got X amount of movies to watch in their lives i've got to pick a good one, or thinking or what were you thinking when they.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Sometimes yeah because people sometimes people miss kind of.

ones that are kind of phenomenal.

movies, you know big one, like one of my like older, one that I really like that is the third man with a Joseph cotton and just and.

Now Orson Welles and it's a Carol read movie he was a British director that worked right around you know, right after the World War Two and during the war and.

that's just like a unique movie and I think, and I can all time masterpiece but you know people have heard of a movie like citizen kane because that's talked about and it's like almost like a.

meme I guess or something citizen kane it's just that great movie or vertigo and when people talk about the old pioneering ones are.

You know old Bergman films, or something, but people don't really think like the third man, but I think it actually kind of holds up better some in its own right, but sometimes yeah you find movies, like that are older SCI fi movies or things that are.

or a lot of people don't realize that certain things are kind of sometimes remakes of other really owe a lot to a previous film and so like those are kind of fun to help people with yeah.

Monique Lillard: i'm pretty sure we watched the third man on your recommendation now that you mentioned it.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Excellent oh.

yeah yeah.

Monique Lillard: yeah yeah so describe a typical day working there.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh, back in the old days in the 90s it's it's pretty different environment like from I want to say from 98 to.

The starting in 98 it was fairly intimidating it was a fairly because it was really busy I mean most days, especially if you're like a.

You know, student employee like you know I didn't do the opening, I think that that time that I mean the store opened at 10 in the morning and I remember eventually.

After the first year, maybe or two working day shifts which were just way better.

Because it's not as quite as busy in terms of customers and it's like more of like maintenance it's more putting things away and sorting you know and doing little projects like.

Entering the shipment into the inventory, like the new movies, that would come and you put them in the computer and you shrink wrap the boxes and then you put them out on the get them ready to go out.

So there was more of that kind of a project, while at night, it was just just lines of people, I mean, especially on those dollar days like on Tuesday and then eventually Thursday, when those were the dollar days we do.

You know, to $3,000 business just any given Tuesday or Thursday and then that was always the case on Friday and Saturday.

At the end of the day, those would be $3,000 days, I mean the place was doing like 10 g's a week, which is just crazy numbers compared to how it was from like 2011 to 20.

You know 2019 where it was way way less than that and different yeah it was just.

But yeah during those evening shifts and you just get right into it, this 30 returns to do, and it was all kind of neat because it was kind of physical then because we had it was vhs tapes.

Primarily, and they were just big and clunky and we'd have to throw them into those these boxes, to protect them, these plastic boxes that you know, had the store information on the front and you know, please rewind and all that stuff so we just it's just the process of.

bang it out those taking the tape out of those boxes and then like slapping them in a row, and then typing in the numbers.

as quickly as you could you get so good on a 10 key pad you just be able to type icon the 78945612 and you just blazing through those returns and then you just grab a big stack of them, and you, you get the boxes and so there's always that and then there was just.

Especially like on holidays or on the busy Tuesday days you just you'd have people working the counter.

And typing in the numbers and taking the customers information, you know to.

You know, to check the movies out onto their account and then usually someone else would just help I just grabbing them going in fetching the movies from the stacks you know just grab them and come up with the tapes and.

It was just like a prod and we'd have as many as like four people working there you know, so you and you had.

really like one terminal that was for returns and then to that were checkout and there'd be align those to checkout ones would just be aligned.

And so you'd go and you'd go into the line and you kind of grab the tapes.

The boxes from people what what they picked out and then you go back and get the tapes ready so that way they'd be all set to go, I mean it was that busy where it was like a.

In other words, you're like taking the order before the person reaches the counter so and that was a I mean it went quickly, so it was just it was a very.

kind of rapid busy pace for a lot of it, and then it was sort of during the day it was much mellow where's more returns you're just putting things away a lot and everything so.

Monique Lillard: You know you bring it back to me, I remember that you grab the boxes and I remember the lines I remember the lines with 810 people in front of you, and they did go mass they did go fast yeah.

yeah.

Monique Lillard: be kind rewind is that what the sticker said.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Something like that yeah.

Monique Lillard: Yes, yes.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah.

Because it was really an issue with tapes for that media.

Monique Lillard: Oh yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: very frustrating for.

People to.

have to rewind the tape.

They just got so.

Monique Lillard: The worst was when somebody stopped in the middle, and so they saw part of it.

Which is really terrible too yeah how many people didn't rewind.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh.

Most people did I mean there'd be a law we have we have professional reminders like two or three.

again at the return counter and we just throw tapes in there.

Once it wants to check to, and it was part of the process, you check if it was rebound and you just.

Do it and sometimes you might make a note on someone's account if they return like five unbound movies link all in a row, and then you just you know we'd make notes and customers accounts, the software and allowed you to do that so you'd be like with for certain corks or certain.

You know.

Monique Lillard: And then you'd remind them.

When they check now except yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: make a comment.

busted.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Please remind your tapes.

Yes, there and yeah just.

say that the same thing with the late list that was another.

not insignificant chore that was done on a daily basis is calling the people with overdue movies, one of the employees would spend an hour to have their shift doing that, like an only that they sort of be over on the return counter.

And they just be have a printed list and they just have to open up people's accounts see what they have out and then.

In column, and that was we just cold call, and that was kind of get on customers sometimes didn't they sometimes they liked being reminded, but a lot of them just return them when they want to and don't like you know thought it was like harassment, but we did it anyway, I guess, but.

But in the old days it was different I mean the videos cost a lot of money, it was a different paradigm, that in the vhs days I mean that was like a 70 $80 investment one of those tapes so we didn't you know we sent people to collections that kind of stuff happened back in those days.

what's interesting with DVDs that stopped it was a different thing the budgets were substantial and the prices were substantial in on vhs tapes they were.

Like I said 70 $80 and then you bought them through a distributor and, if I remember it was ingram in Seattle.

was a big movie distributor and they would have programs where it would be cheaper if you bought a lot you commit to buying a lot, but then sometimes that wasn't practical for a store of our size to buy.

20 copies of Austin powers to you know but but there then they're only $30 per table if you buy 20 copies, but if you buy.

You know less than 20 then they're going to be 50 or $80 a pop and so yeah it's just like figuring out your budget at that point.

DVDs changed everything because they were always priced at what we called sell through.

and sell through is like the price when the movie was old enough, it would just costs like retail like 10 to $20.

But DVDs for some reason we're always tend to $20 and never priced it like 70 or 80 arbitrary, the way that tapes were it was like an arbitrary thing it was like.

Something the middle name came up with between the Hollywood studio and the video store there was like they just charge a lot for these just vhs tapes yeah.

yeah which had no intrinsic real value, you know they're not sophisticated technology or anything but yeah.

Monique Lillard: How often did the tapes fail break or.

Oh.

Benjamin Hardcastle: We could fix them we learned myself and another guy Kevin lend that work there learned how to attack kind of take them apart and splice the tape.

And so we prepare him, sometimes it was repairable but sometimes it would be just totally destroyed like through heat or something but.

I don't know they would wear out, but not as often as you think I mean I I still own tapes from the video store and that's these are like tapes that are decades old probably from the 80s.

And they actually still play so I mean, I have a vhs collection, I have several hundred vhs tapes still because I I hold on the vcr is when I see him in a thrift store i'll take a chance and buy a vcr, just in case it might work.

yeah because some movies, you can only watch the tape they just for some reason, never got the rights to.

distribute them on DVD yeah.

Monique Lillard: Can you give an example of tape that's a movie that.

Benjamin Hardcastle: is great finished movie i'm trying to Pathfinder yeah so it's a brilliant finished it's it's in the Sami language.

Which is not common to find a Sami language and it's about kind of a finished legend there.

it's a this boy, you know they they're out there hunting reindeer and this tribe was being attacked by a more ruthless tribe, and then he got captured by the ruthless tribe in and then he.

kind of sacrificed himself to lead them away from the escaping villagers, but it was very modern he was very kind of tight intense sort of.

Action movie but kind of interesting because it's set in Middle Ages, Finland.

Interesting up it's all.

know and bears.

And reindeer and bows and yeah it's never come out on.

On the DVD and now it's only been another one was a better example when I want one of my it's a great movie a great southern voir filmed in New Orleans and it stars like big stars like.

Emma Thompson and Alan rickman related it's called Judas kiss and it's just a brilliant new our film about a kidnapping gone wrong it is Carla gugino.

In it, as well, and how whole brick as well it's got a great cast and it's like and it's kind of like a major studio movie a little bit on the small side.

kind of an answer it's a brilliant to our film and it never know DVD and then Steven soderbergh movie Kafka.

Which is a one of his best mood and he's a huge Hollywood director, you know ocean's 11 all the big stuff Erin Brockovich traffic and then Kafka is like his second or third movie it's just brilliant again big cast it has a Alec Guinness and.

Michael ironside and lower know JEREMY irons rather yeah JEREMY irons, and all this great and it's a non DVD.

I think I think it's in region four or something which is you know, the European Code, they have different regions for DVDs around the world, because they don't know why they want to control.

What can be seen where so region, one is North America is our common and then there's like region to which is Europe.

And then there's like regions three it goes up to seven it's like there's Africa has the region Asia Pacific island part of Asia, Latin America.

Australia has its own so yeah sometimes you can find a DVD it's distributed in a certain region but not others like Australia allows a lot of movies, actually, that you can get on Australian players.

But you can get a region free DVD player it's in that, then you can watch a movie from anywhere in the world, because it just disregards the code.

Monique Lillard: that's good yeah we have one that.

will watch definitely European movies.

Oh, my husband Duncan would know exactly what region.

I yeah.

yeah yeah sort of forgotten about that, but that's That is something he researched and figured out so So if you ever need to borrow one.

we've got something I don't know what we've got we've got something yeah yeah now how often still back in the late 90s early 2000s with the video tapes how often did people steal them.

mm hmm.

Benjamin Hardcastle: wow yeah you call someone on the waitlist for a month or two and just like it just wasn't coming back.

And I remember like really early in my career there one that was notorious was within my first year of working there a.

A more recent employee like a young employee just out of high school or movies, still in high school he rented to a first time renter so some college students rented, and this is back when DVDs were new and we only have like 300 DVDs and then we also had maybe about.

Not many 30 or 40 adult DVDs and like what they called the porn room, you know it was mostly tapes at this point so there's like 300 DVDs and there was like maybe we had another 30.

Adult DVDs but some new College student opened in a cat had never rented there before and he rented like 10 DVDs.

And like 10 adult DVDs for the first time, and he never brought them back, I mean he just opened an account.

Like rented those and they it no intention of ever, but that was rare that someone just came and rented a lot of stuff and we kind of gave that.

Port that new clerk kind of a hard time because it's like well you really shouldn't rent that many things, I mean someone cannot watch 10 because they're like a one day rental I mean how many how many.

Adult DVDs can one person watching 24 hours or.

You know.

Monique Lillard: Whatever excited got it.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Was gonna obviously like a heist.

You know, or that or.

Or the first one was going to incur heavy late fees as a matter of course, you know and then so that was a that's one that stuck out in my mind, because that was back when.

When it was.

There kind of new and we were kind of a little more protective of the DVD part of the store.

And people didn't know if it was going to take out for a long time it was funny that people thought it would be like laser disc I don't know if you remember laser discs from the 80s oh great picture and everything but I mean it's like put an album on I mean it's like a big.

monkey disk and the player is big and yeah.

And they did have really nice sound and picture quality compared to a tape for sure, but um yeah people thought that way about the DVD technology in the late 90s going to come out I I didn't buy a player for probably a couple years of work in there and.

Monique Lillard: I remember, thinking it was a racket I thought well they're just trying to get me to spy the same movie twice, you know.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah oh.

Monique Lillard: yeah yeah now on this guide, for example, this college student did you call the police, I mean because the way you're describing it if that's at times 10.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh yeah it was like.

We had collections, I think, somebody might have gotten after and we send them to collections that wasn't really my department that was more like the main manager on something rhonda she did like the collections.

At that point, but it became less than less than people that collection companies would take cases like that I guess trivial and my end yeah some people like my mom always like why didn't you just.

get these people to pay for stuff they take you know okay and there's like no consequences, you know, this is in later days and, in some ways that's true I don't know if it's worth the trouble like really like later.

But yeah back in the old days, certainly if it because the tapes cost so much money.

I mean if it was it was hundreds of dollars, you know worth of merchandise, then you we sent people to collection and there were collections agencies that would recover.

Some of that money or we just all we resorted to later was just charging people's credit cards which would almost never work, but once in a while it would.

This was like later in the in the 2000 teens when I was working there we did the late list, and if it was like a month or more, we just see if we could charge if we kept the credit card on file.

which they didn't used to do that was that was a change to is taking the credit card because we didn't used to do that and.

We used to take kind of a second form of you open an account with like a live driver's license or a ID and then you use a second form of identification and that could bury from a suit 92 like a.

Military ID or even a social security card some some reason you think it's crazy now, but we had people social security numbers in that database.

Like lots of them and it's kind of nuts, to think about now but there really wasn't nothing was really wired it's kind of almost pro Internet days and.

yeah people weren't as afraid of US identity theft, but then it became just credit card it really became more about like.

We want some kind of card that we could maybe attempt to charge if someone failed to return the merchandise and.

We try and it would work about one in every 10 times that card might you know we get some payment but there it was really different back in the old days of of high price tapes because people when they took things we did send people to collections yeah.

Monique Lillard: that's good.

Benjamin Hardcastle: that's good it wasn't that often.

It was I don't know what we'd probably lose.

Five to 10 things a month I don't know, maybe around that i'm trying to remember how much but.

It wasn't unheard of yeah stuff you know just accumulate on the waitlist we just start getting items that were out for hundreds of days, and it would be like that's not coming back right.

Whereas people are those people are gone that stuff is gone.

Monique Lillard: yeah yeah.

Right, I can see that I need to pause this for just a SEC.

Okay, on here um and sure we're done all right.

hold on cording.

seems to to does it say it's recording I.

Benjamin Hardcastle: guess it is recorded announced it was Maya.

Monique Lillard: All right.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Good recording and brothers.

Monique Lillard: Okay excellent I felt as if I had some questions and what you were just talking about, but I can't remember they'll probably come to me, and now I have something to write them down with so.

Benjamin Hardcastle: We can.

Monique Lillard: let's see here.

i'm trying to decide if I want to keep let's let's just stay back in the late 90s early 2000s was it your job to do the ordering of the movies, or was that rhonda the general manager or somebody.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Like the two of us would.

we'd really agreed go talk to a woman from ingram whose name's escaping me we'd go meter for lunch at Casa or something and she'd give us like the programs for the month.

Like so we'd know for the next what was coming out the next month, so it was we did like a monthly budget and i'm trying to remember the number, I mean it was pretty high it was.

Probably like $5,000 or something I don't know for the month or more than that you know, it was a lot of money, because the tapes cost so much, but we'd go through, and just see like.

What we could afford and what we thought would rent so you'd look at you kind of look at the movies, you know it was coming out.

And you'd say like how many copies, can we get away with like, how many are we going to need like that one's going to be popular.

Like I mentioned before the Austin powers movie I mean that was popular and we had to buy a lot of them, but it turned out to pay off.

Because we ended up buying probably 18 copies or something at 30 or $40 each because, otherwise, it was going to be seven, but those 18 copies actually rent I mean we.

Did enough business that people rented them, and when we had leftover ones we'd sell them so but yeah we met this woman from Seattle over it.

Like once a month over at the Casa de Oro them at the restaurant just down the block from the store and kind of go over and kind of pick out what we're going to.

Order for the month how best to spend the money.

yeah so.

Monique Lillard: Did you get any sense that the Moscow audience was different from a national audience or different from the Seattle audience or.

Benjamin Hardcastle: um.

No, and I couldn't really I couldn't really speak to that I don't know because I never really.

I mean I kept in touch with john foster who worked at the you know at Howard Hughes and then went to scarecrow in Seattle and he but he said that was just nuts and that was a totally different.

environment that was in right there in the heart of the U district in Seattle, Washington and just much bigger store they're like the size of the block.

I mean there were a huge building with multiple levels and always had probably four times the inventory, that the Howard Hughes video had so.

But yeah he said, you know, yes, they could do certain things over there, I mean they had a foreign sections and stuff but that's because they is there the whole city.

yeah there, I mean there were lots of blockbusters i'm sure in Seattle just you know and chain stores and there were probably lots of mom and pop video stores all over but scarecrow was like the place it was like a.

Like a serious event, if you are serious about film.

And stuff yeah it was like the palace yeah.

Video rental so.

But other than that I didn't really know anybody in the industry that like was in different areas like Boise or who rented.

One I mentioned, being a college town might have changed at some somewhat like what we would pick we could get away, maybe get more already things, and they would actually rent and move and we're always looking to expand the inventory, like the variety.

I mean that was part of like having those esoteric sections at the store in the old days the tape days, we had the actor wall of fame.

And the director wall of fame and the crystal gruff critics choice and festival award winners, which is something those sections, we did keep like later, but people like the sections, you know cult classics and all that we had so much.

There are a lot of sections, but yeah that the director and the actor sections are things that people kind of that stuck out and.

It would frustrate some customers because they'd be like one need to find this movie and it's like oh it's ours this random guy in it like TIM Thomas.

You know, because some of the actors were like people that weren't even really that famous and it's like yeah that's an attempt Thompson section and they'd be like what.

You know so made it hard to shop, but other people liked it, you know if it was a big star like you want to go get some jack Nicholson movies, or some brad Pitt movies, then they'd be there, a lot of them.

Monique Lillard: In doing these interviews.

everybody remembers those sections.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh yeah.

Monique Lillard: Everybody i'm interviewing love to those sections of course we.

know this slightly slanted we're interviewing people who liked the store you.

know people really liked it, I remember a friend of mine came in from La and I said what I love about the story is how.

Great the organization is, and I remember he walked in and he said, yet, but how did you find what you're looking for I said well if you can't find it you go and ask the people at the front and they'll find yeah yeah so actually several questions still come to my mind.

The woman from ingram would sell you the new releases, but would she also sort of slowly help you build kind of degrade oldies and the classics and all of that was that part of what she did or did you get those from other sources.

Benjamin Hardcastle: They had catalogs there wait yeah ingram had catalogs and they had old movies, too, and we have the extra budget we try to take some of those on.

yeah that's something that continued into the later, you know iterations of the store with even with a much smaller budget we tried to get some new stuff.

That wasn't necessarily like just brand new coming out we just like like an older movie that we didn't have, for some reason we try to set aside some money for that.

Right like even in the later years when we're buying almost everything off of eBay and Amazon, you know and not, but I think in the old days through ingram I think ingram did have a.

Substantial you know section of older tapes they weren't but they're mostly trying to hustle like they're mostly trying to get you to sign into those programs, and by a lot of the new movies that were coming out every Tuesday.

So every week there'll be new stuff and yeah sometimes yeah your budget would be kind of broken, because some big blockbuster would come out that month and it would just be that would just suck up a lot of them, the budget and another time she didn't have that yeah.

Monique Lillard: and other times faster cost more or.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Because you'd have to buy more copies you just.

Look at it a lot you commit so many financial resources to the.

The big movie you know the hit that made like 200 300 million at the box office you know or something like that so.

Luckily, this, these are kind of the days before the comic book movies really took off, which are now the those are the ones that seem to just do ridiculous amounts of box office but um yeah back then, it was.

yeah there were some big movies would come out about every month or two something really big.

And that would kind of your school your budget but yeah the old stuff and I think there were a few other little old the company called keno I think we'd get catalogs from all over and make it, you know get the kino catalog you could buy.

You know kind of older foreign films European films and you just order it directly from them, I think we didn't go through ingram for that stuff but.

Like said the budgets were much larger back then, because the I mean that the traffic is 10 grand a week it was just a lot of it was a big.

Big business video stores just work, you know, for a long in their moment, they just really made a lot of money, I mean that's why blockbuster became as a big witnesses starbucks and subway for for a while until you know streaming and redbox sort of ended that yeah.

Monique Lillard: yeah the adult titles, first of all, did they cost more to the store and, second, of all did you charge a higher rate for them.

Benjamin Hardcastle: They charge we charge a lot, I mean they're like new release prices they're like 350 or something and they just paid for themselves, it was I never understood why we didn't just buy more porn I mean really in a lot, because it made so much money, it was 350 to rent it for one day and.

We had the in the stuff would cost like we'd order it just like kind of without.

Picking anything we just kind of you know randomly pick out 20 so it's time to get some new porn so we'd go get.

By like 20 titles and they'd be like $10 each they cost like almost nothing compared to proper movies, you know costs like I said, between 30 to.

70 $80 you know, but this would be really cheap, so you rent them three times done you paid for it.

You know, and they and they rented a lot and then because college kids would get them and then older people will get them, especially on Sunday, so that was really the adult movie renting day Sunday we just do a lot like right after church or something serious.

Sunday morning.

yeah it was so we have the adult room and yeah we just and The thing is, we could.

We also had a we'd sell some we've kind of cycle through the adult so a lot of it we just decide over just going to sell these so then we'd sell them for like 999 so we're selling them for like what we're paying for them, and they would sell.

So it's other words you spend $10 you can rent it five six times for 350 at Bob.

And then you can sell it for two what you paid for it and it's gone so it's just like money.

yeah so I never understood why we weren't doing just cycling it through more, but it would kind of be an afterthought thing that would get ordered about twice a year.

Maybe just randomly we just sort of yeah we're going to buy 2034 notes and.

I remember it was a pain to shrink wrap up because they came in these really big boxes, like the display box was much larger like a vhs tape it's like probably you know four by seven or something like a one inch thick.

Monique Lillard: That yeah yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah the the dimensions of an adult movie or like probably three times that size, the box, not the cassette tape itself, obviously, but the box, the display box is large, because they want to show more pictures of what's in it, you know I guess.

Monique Lillard: yeah afraid of theft, maybe I don't know.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Maybe yeah it was kind of.

odd yeah because to make people march up with these huge gaudy boxes, you know, and I mean to the counter current it's think it would be more discreet.

would have been would have been a better call or we could have just like instead of having the display boxes, we could have just had them on display like cards.

And then people would come up with these cards and just you know, and then we to you know, give them the tape and it would be more you know.

Professional I would I always thought, but I didn't call the shots on that, but I remember yeah adult movies really did well for the store and people asked us about having an adult room well into the teens well into my my second.

session of working there people would ask where's the adult room and it's like and we have one for a little while but finally we ran out of room and just got rid of it, it was like an adult closet.

And I think we got rid of it, maybe 2014 15 and just needed the room like when it was mainstream video there at the smaller venue we just always ran out of room, I remember.

Early in my years working in 2012 or something when I was doing it again, it was.

We had like a little room that was full of tapes beta and it's just like we gotta sell these or get rid of them, and so we so I did kind of went through them all.

And then I checked on eBay to see if any of the tapes and some of them were like valuable or.

worked on DVD like that so as a movie we kept on and we did that we held on to a few thousand tapes just because they were films that you couldn't see any other way.

And sometimes faculty from the University would come, and they would have access to a vcr.

So they'd be like Oh, I want to show this movie and it's like well, we only have it on tape and they're like Okay, we haven't vcr we can get one from the media Center at the VI, and so we did that I went through and just kind of determine.

on using the Internet just kind of determine what we had to hold on to and what we could just get rid of, and we just sold them for like.

50 cents each are some ludicrously low price and we just we just needed the room, we just constantly we're running out of space in that in that menu yeah yeah yeah.

Monique Lillard: i've asked you one more question about these adult titles and then i'm going to.

move past that but i'm curious did you ever get blowback people coming in saying this is an outrage you shouldn't be selling these for one reason or another.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Not very much no, not that I recall.

Monique Lillard: It.

Benjamin Hardcastle: got one and only kid got one know it'd be kind of awkward if.

kids are we kind of made it in the old days and the tape days the room was bigger and it had a big good door on it people.

You know, we put it near sections that kids shouldn't be in any way it was near like where we had an erotic thriller section, which is kind of like soft core adult aren't yeah and maybe.

Action i'm trying to remember the sections that are really near the adult room, but it was way off in the back.

The only issue was people bringing them up to rent but you know, like I said, people seem to rent them at very late at night or just church time Sunday morning Sunday afternoon.

That was, like all the adults, the adult mental times and so people wouldn't go up there with adult tapes like.

Say Tuesday it's dollar day it's 6pm the stores just lines you know lines out the door people wanting their movies yeah That was when adult movies weren't rented you know, generally, so there wasn't really that much kind of outrage on that good, I would say more yeah.

More so they like customer complaints about things like that, where sometimes certain movies would offend people in the store.

That we're playing that the employees are things people we get complaints about that some of them like a PG 13 when I remember, specifically that even got written up in the paper was the movie cable guy.

Which Jim carrey and that was a that's an Matthew broderick that's a PG 13 movie but playing in the store and it's just like yeah it has some slightly inappropriate parts, a little bit, but it's like it's set somebody really off enough to complain about it in the paper.

So that was kind of cool yeah what was what would be appropriate for some is not for others, so you kind of keep it low key.

During the day anyway.

Monique Lillard: yeah, but that was what I was going to ask you is how do you.

decide what to play in the store, and so the answer is you're keeping it low key, especially when kids are going to be in there and what else anything else.

Benjamin Hardcastle: I decided when a celebrity birthdays later on, especially that like when I was working in the teens at the mainstream video, I would just.

See, whose birthday, it was that day like today it's Helena bonham carter's birthday like literally is the 26th of May, so I could like watch, you know some of her movies and they're probably not like fight club.

And she's in but, like some of the some of the other ones like.

Maybe howard's end or something like that you know she then Harry.

Monique Lillard: potter yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Where the potter movies yeah yeah yeah.

TIM Burton movies.

So yeah just pick a celebrity and you just like that kind of decided what you might put on to occupy or other times TV shows, later on, people would like want to just put on TV, I thought that kind of got annoying if they're wild if it was like.

Like a shift somebody you just can tell who was working because star trek Voyager was on.

Like every time they worked or other times you know people will be working I think Ian went through seinfeld there for a while, so for several weeks, it was just seinfeld was on.

Every shift there you know what I mean, so I always thought it should be more like movies than TV or keep the TV a little bit at a time, maybe do it like once a week or something if you're going to have it on or.

But uh yeah back in the old days it could be controversial, but.

But other times it, you know wasn't I don't know it was weird because in the old days, sometimes I mean people would put in like R rated movies later at night, I remember, like in my first few months of work in there one point, we had the scorsese version of Cape fear on.

And that's a pretty insane movie with Robert de niro like bites a woman's face off and stuff like that and yeah and.

never know key and you know it didn't really have language in it didn't have sex So those are the main things that would kind of maybe bother people with nudity as obviously a huge, no, no.

But yeah the violence, you could kind of you could push up on it and there were some R rated movies, that we thought were are for like no reason kind of like.

I mean just because it was four or something like one of them, like the city of Los children, you know that john john a movie great movie with RON perlman Nice.

that's one of my all time favorite.

Monique Lillard: i'm gonna write this down though yeah okay.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah he's the guy that directed amelie wrench and john's day he did normally in a very long engagement and delicatessen, which is also rated R for really note, I mean there's no sex there's no language it's just because it's French.

it's not excessively violent it's just it's French movie so it's our it's our.

Video lost children, I really don't understand yeah yeah.

Monique Lillard: What was the name of that Finland movie path.

Oh Pathfinder I find my.

pen wasn't working so I want to get this done.

Benjamin Hardcastle: I think I have that still on on vhs about that and Judas kiss some of those that are only on tape.

i've had a lot to.

Monique Lillard: yeah you should.

Benjamin Hardcastle: that's good yeah that's good.

Monique Lillard: tell us more about so when did I think you said this, but just when did DVDs come in.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Well right when I started.

Right, when I started so in August of.

That summer so I started in like the end of the summer of 98 I think that they start at the beginning that was like the first year was 98 ever brand new because, like I said there were maybe 200 of them.

or two or 300 of them by the fall of 98 when I was kind of getting in the groove of that and, like, as I said, we had maybe 30 adult ones and.

We didn't buy new releases on DVD very often a lot like when a new movie would come out, you know we wouldn't necessarily even have it on DVD we're just kind of buying random old movies out on DVD that were coming out and.

Now it's kind of yeah it was very much in its infancy and never expanded that quickly a little bit, but.

And they were just so much more economical but that's The thing that the people, the technology hadn't.

taken off, I mean for years there between 98 know to when I work people would come rent vcr and TVs from us, because we rented televisions to people and vc ours and we had this one like TV vcr combo and that rented every weekend to the same family.

You know this guy i've heard now i've are Nelson I think.

You live right next to St mary's church there yeah yeah.

A local guy i've are yeah he rented the TV vcr combo unit, and it was like $10 a night, but he got that, like every weekend or one night, and it was just.

Just he didn't want to own his own TV and vcr or something like that or just got that in a movie or two and so that, so the DVD it really just crept along it wasn't like some big overnight changed the way that streaming became a thing like netflix.

When it didn't really or the red boxes that's kind of popped up everywhere all at once yeah that kind of the DVDs as as just the media just really slowly, at least in our video store maybe another video stores there they kind of jumped in a little.

Quick quicker, but we never had a big inventory, you know it just incrementally a time we got a tiny your collection, you know and just got a little bit bigger at a time.

As opposed to tapes where we were getting hundreds and hundreds of them every month every month just hundreds and we'd sell extra copies, but we.

Know sold, well, I mean people wanted to buy the tapes it was just a money making thing it was kind of a it was a great industry for a while that had its little two decade window.

Monique Lillard: Do you think that the video quality was better on tape or on DVD or.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh it's better on DVD the video and sound yeah and you can tell, even now, like in the difference on it with BLU rays, and also the thing is watching things now it's.

tapes are really meant to be watched on tube TV technology on the on a what I call like a three dimensional TV.

Not like a two dimensional like now everything's flat screen everything's high def if you watch the tape and i've done it and I have to because I don't have any old TVs I have vcr is, but I have to hook them up through.

adapters to get them to talk to these modern televisions, because you have to like convert the signal from a coaxial cable into hdmi or you know can convert it so that it will talk to the new TV and they look bad I mean you can tell the difference from a dv.

I mean, even a DVD compared to a BLU Ray looks bad.

On because the TVs revolution is so good, but if you're used to it, and everyone was back back in the day, people.

I mean they might have a big tube TV, but they don't have a monitor they don't have a flat screen they don't have.

People didn't have high definition TVs so tapes and DVDs the quality, I think, was much closer, because there were going through this tube TV interesting so that was ABS yeah that's absolutely I mean you can watch.

I mean if you have a tube TV and you throw a tape on it actually looks fine because you're just used to that's what a tube TV looks like right it's kind of that.

it's pixels you know the the light the way the way the TV works, I think, scientifically it's just different in the medium works better.

vhs, but if you watch it on a good on a flat screen and gotten a modern TV, they do not like that, and you just put up with it just so I can watch an old movie.

Monique Lillard: Tell me about BLU Ray I am that i'm not sure it was quite a transition to BLU Ray that was another one where it felt kind of parallel.

Benjamin Hardcastle: To that and also prep and slowly yeah that became like a more.

For one thing, they're much they were more expensive than DVD substantially, this is probably BLU rays came around probably about the time when DVDs were.

costing 15 to $20 and that's just for a new one, so the video store like your money went a lot further in the DVD era, because, instead of buying a vhs tape for $70 you got a DVD the same brand new movie for 15 or 20.

And BLU rays, though we're a little higher price point mostly like 25 $30 maybe more 35 and it didn't really.

There really weren't many people with that technology that took a long time, and I remember just working in the teens very few people had BLU Ray players and the BLU Ray section really wasn't.

Much of anything at the video store, I mean, I think it was kind of like the way the DVD section was in 98 was just like a small, and it has its own little part of the store, just like a few shelves, this is where the DVDs are.

And I think BLU rays, just to have their own little section, this is where the BLU rays are and then eventually we started to put them at the beginning of the other sections, so, in other words, if we had a drama the BLU rays would be like at the front of the drama.

And at the front of critics choice, but yeah they got more popular but it took a long time for people to own BLU Ray players, it was just like it took a long time for people to go to DVD or vhs.

But it crept along, but then, all of a sudden, before you know it it's over that's what's kind of weird about those technologies, before you know it.

Nobody wants to tapes and everyone's doing DVDs and then now it's like the BLU rays I don't think the DVDs or players or even they don't really those are kind of harder to find just to buy now.

I think you have to kind of buy a BLU Ray player and then we're fortunate because they're backwards compatible, so you can play a DVD or BLU Ray.

machine, but I don't think you could maybe by just the DVD player I don't think so.

I think the price has gone.

way down for them to this that technology becomes less desirable but yeah so it's that's it's always yeah the technologies per yeah.

Monique Lillard: yeah you know you mentioned ivor Nelson who just by chance you mentioned, we both know him were there regulars any stories you want to tell about regulars that came up i'm going to fiddle with my lighting.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh, we have some I mean there were always back in the old days when it was busy I mean we always said regulars like newer ones.

We certainly had like regular sent when it got kind of slow, you know, at the end when it was mainstream video but out of Famous people in the old ones I remember this guy.

That was the he was like the cook or the main chef at the old picking restaurant and he was a Vietnamese guy and he would rent on his brothers account he didn't speak English like when he said his account number, it was like.

It was you couldn't really understand it, but we all just kind of knew up to look up the name, which was ven TRAN so we just look up and train and the number was something like.

12334 I mean it was some longer account number and the way he said it you couldn't really understand he didn't save it, but he come in every week and have a ton of money, I mean he spent a ton of money, and also that one thing, it was remarkable about him is he was a tipper.

So he just give you money just keep the change.

Monique Lillard: I.

know everyone would have thought of chipping.

Benjamin Hardcastle: away yeah he was just like.

Keep the change, you know he didn't want his money back.

So he just like.

Get you know six $7 worth of movies, and give you $10 and that would be the end of it, he didn't want to be bothered with it.

Monique Lillard: Did other people do that also.

Benjamin Hardcastle: No, no, not generally no he just been I don't know he was interesting guy yeah he always.

He because the OPA king, I mean it was literally less than a block away from the store, but he just come in every week and he would just he always wanted his movies, in a bag and you just did you know you just went you got the.

movies, you just look up the account he liked that he liked it when you just knew who he was and you didn't ask him what his number was.

Because you couldn't really understand it anyway, and he didn't like the top make small talk or asking he knew what he wanted he just went in there and got stuff.

Usually like new releases occasionally older one and just get a bunch of them come up and you just you know you just get his account and put them in the bag and then he just give me the money and to keep it and go get out of there you know you didn't.

Monique Lillard: that's great.

Benjamin Hardcastle: So that was a regular back in that yeah back in the day, there was another guy named vino gar says, who was a good.

Customer he worked at Casa restaurant right next to old picking there, and he was a he was.

A bartender there for a long time, and he would just spend tons of money and we always kind of informal deal with him, I have to say, after all this year that.

We didn't punish him on his late because he he came in every week and rented movies, but he was always late he didn't like six new ones and there's you know back in those days, a new movie you're supposed to bring it back, like the next day.

So he couldn't get through them all, you bring them back and four or five days, the late fees were like the full price so be kind of punishing so it'd be like.

You know before you knew it he'd have like $40 and late fees, but when he always brought him back, we always cut him a deal like maybe made the late fees like half off and we did that and.

um well two reasons, I thought were one reason was kind of like the.

fact that he still came in and spent like $20 a week, and if the late fee got too big, he might just say forget it not want to pay it not come back, but he was just regularly feeding that store money.

Every any you know and we charge them for part of the late fees, so it was just kind of like you know that that and then also he'd set us up at Casa with drinks or food or whatever.

Monique Lillard: that's great.

Benjamin Hardcastle: That was that was for a couple years back in the 90s, but yeah he just came in and he kept random and he's like want to get keep just kind of expected to kind of get a break on the late fees.

And he would forget the movies, you know not have time he's one of those kind of guys who just kind of forget them and.

not remember to bring them to work when he's working at Casa you know so yeah there were lots of regular I mean it was all about regulars you know kind of story it see the same people and you'd get to know their account numbers.

And that became even more so, just because I knew either the name or the account number.

of people like when it was mainstream video when it was much when it was less busy than you really just I wouldn't have to ask people there.

I just recommend you know I just look up them up by their name, just like save a step, you know need to interrogate people about.

You know what their account number is so that probably made it seem homey and a lot of my staff were that way at the time remember and certainly like bow and.

People like that would know the people that just probably made it you just go up there with your stuff and they give it to you.

Monique Lillard: You know, it was really nice.

It was really yes, yes yeah.

And by the way the computer system you're talking about was that that DAS system that.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah That was a really.

Monique Lillard: Good software to the new star yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah it finally broke, but you know in like 2017 or something we had to do a whole new software, I was coming having problems with it.

But yeah I ran was dos base, but it was a really clever was a good system for managing inventory and you could put notes, and I mean the customer information pages were it was well done.

It was just very intuitive it was a good software i'm shining remember the name of it it's escaping me now that we used.

The licensing money for I mean it was it hadn't been updated since the 90s, and we were still using it well into the 2000 teens.

yeah, but it was the it was quite expensive, from what I understand to you to buy the license to use it back in the 80s, it was developed in the 80s in like the Pascal language or something like that computer language something way back.

So I can't remember the name of it, though, but yeah That was good, software and then we had to get some kind of cheaper less intuitive kind of more modern software that was sort of.

Just out there, I think, for the few video stores that were still around the world that I mean this is like 2018 2017 there weren't a lot of options in terms of video software yeah yeah yeah and converting it all was pretty difficult but did manage to do it so.

Monique Lillard: yeah I heard that I heard that was a huge endeavor yeah.

So it so oh wait one question started to jump around a little bit what's the biggest late for you ever remember.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh, I don't know we've had we've had people bay and I remember people face, you know triple figure once people pay in the hundreds in the old days.

People did take care of it to rent again or something or we might reduce it from like $300 to have that or something, and that would be more but i'd send up to do it, but yeah late fees were a serious source of income back in the old it, but it was.

It was such a busy.

Business back then that it was costing us money if a popular new release movie wasn't there the next day by six o'clock then we couldn't.

Because we were guaranteed almost guaranteed on new ones to just be able to flip them every day.

To just have a title rent and then come back and then rent again and come back just like four weeks with just go in and out of the store so late fees were kind of like you know, we had the charges on because it was costing us money and.

You know, we gave we told people like 6pm and but I mean the computer software and everything we have our leniency till seven.

So, so we never told people that.

yeah.

Monique Lillard: I was always on that line right.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Now we'd let people off, you know even further than that someone I mean we might go until like eight mean at that point.

And that would be one of the big arguments they'd be like people would be like I brought it back that day well it's like.

Not by 60 it needs to be here by the evening, so that it can go out again and otherwise you're basically keeping it another day you bring it in five minutes before we close.

It doesn't yeah.

Monique Lillard: Help us tonight yeah yeah we lost the night so.

Benjamin Hardcastle: That was the That was the business model, back then, so, but people paid some big ones yeah for sure I can't remember the biggest but yeah triple figures for sure I don't remember ever thousands okay certainly that would probably.

I would remember that but, but certainly but hundreds for sure okay.

Monique Lillard: Are you Okay, you need to stop and stretch or anything, are you doing okay.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh i'm hanging in there.

Monique Lillard: All right, good.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Good good getting feet flat on the floor.

Monique Lillard: yeah that's what i'm trying to do the same thing.

yeah that's right.

yeah okay let's see here um so one of the questions i've been asking people is how did the store change over the years and you're in a good position to answer that because you were there in the heyday gone for a few years you come back.

And you said 2011 what you said.

yeah yeah.

So what's what was the change right, so I think well, maybe you remember when the move happened from the Washington street over to the Main Street.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Because I wasn't working there at the time.

Monique Lillard: You weren't okay.

Benjamin Hardcastle: I was okay i'm kind of helped with the move a little I remember that.

Trying to remember, I can't remember exactly that year that must have been.

When that move happened that must have been like oh six or so.

I want to say was that is when the ownership change from the dawn and Kevin don frye and Kevin pietersen and the people that you know that own the video the appliance and they sold it to Devon Kelly and and Gary.

and

yeah and then, but the main difference coming back was it was just all DVDs and there was much less room much less space, you know there wasn't no longer an actor wall no longer.

You know the sections became more basic because we just had to stack so many DVDs and they're just side to side and.

It was just harder to find them in the tape days it was more spread out, I mean and there weren't as many when when I think when the tapes when I stopped in 2002 the tapes are up to maybe about 14,000 so we had 14,000 tapes and then I think when I came back.

In 11 I looked at, and we had still had tapes they were almost never renting really they were just we're just trying to sell them or do something with them.

But um they were just sort of in limbo, but I think the tapes the highest numbers, I saw were about 16,000 something 1617 so they only got about another 3000 tapes between 2002 and 2011 I mean it's kind of phased out.

It wasn't growing the way it was in the 90s, where it was just we're getting probably 1000 new tapes a year, you know or something yeah so so yeah became smaller and more difficult to find things and.

yeah it was, but it was interesting you just said you had to be more aware of the inventory, I think, because there were just more more of it with the DVDs.

Trying to think about how many DVDs the place had in.

In 2011 and then.

But.

it's escaping me, I mean probably 20,000 or something you know, probably in the 20 somewhere, I think, by the time it ended the final inventory like in 2019 or whatever was, I think it was in the 30s.

So, so it must have been in the 20th but that that was the main thing it was just like we didn't have room to have all the little fun sections, although occasionally we'd add other ones we'd have kind of switching sections one time we did.

We had this place where we just kind of put up a random section once in a while like Halloween around Halloween movies or holiday movies.

But one time we did decided to just do comic book movies, and that was that section stuck because it was so popular we just kept it, and so they got a permanent section.

Because the Hollywood it just decided to do comic books to death, so every month we'd have three or four new comic book movies.

Plus there's movies, you wouldn't think of that are based on graphic novels that are like road to perdition with Tom Hanks or things like that or snow piercer.

or ones that are based on graphic novels from foreign countries things.

So that yeah it was just kind of we didn't have quite as much room to play around, I mean the old store we had so much room for collages and things were.

It was such a big space we had to decorate it all the time to make it seem kind of homey because it was fast it's quite a lot of square footage so yeah.

Monique Lillard: I remember at the new store and maybe at the old store, I think it both stores, if an actor would die then you'd or even just.

Oh yeah really famous or something would happen.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah you.

Monique Lillard: Put we do a memorial for sure when an actor passed away, we did Memorial, I did like Michael caine and.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Ebola or not Michael caine but i'm.

kind of like Peter cushing you know people like that you know even obscure ones I don't know more recently there be some yeah like Sean connery.

yeah yeah so.

Monique Lillard: Right, so the DVDs they're smaller and they're cheaper so in a way, you can get more of them.

Benjamin Hardcastle: mm hmm.

Monique Lillard: Right, and I think you must have been in where were you in charge of buying the DVDs from 2011 to two when you stopped.

Because that's what the collectively.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah Bo was doing it, he was still working with distributors, when he was managing and then, when I was managing it.

pretty much at that point, like movie distribution died at that point, because I mean red box and streaming and just kind of take it, there were no ingram's anymore, there was no middleman I think in 2011 there still wasn't from Bo was still dealing with the.

The woman in Seattle to get movies, you know, on DVD our budget went further because DVDs are less expensive and they didn't have that program system anymore, where you had to buy X amount of movies, to get them at X price.

But.

yeah.

say that, like later on, we had to go through Amazon, and you know eBay and stuff because it just wasn't any way to.

You know, there was no middleman anymore, it was just kind of rare people were there weren't enough video stores left to have people.

And that change things, because then it became harder to necessarily get everything on the day it's supposed to come out.

People kind of had to bear with us and had maybe stuff would come a few days late, you know tuesday's usually the day when the new stuff comes, but sometimes it wouldn't come till Thursday or Friday, because we have to order it from a unorthodox source, but.

Monique Lillard: Did that open up though the movies, that you might be able to order.

Benjamin Hardcastle: In other words, you don't know.

Monique Lillard: Somebody know.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah kind of yeah I mean certainly would use eBay more and I was doing that, when when even when Bo was ordering we'd have a little extra money and we could just.

buy obscure titles, you know you could just find them, you know stuff that we didn't have as a video store and should, and it really wasn't hard to argue.

You know that point as long as the movie if it didn't cost too much because their DVDs they almost never did cost very much so.

You could just you know because we're always looking to have everything to kind of expand the library so.

Monique Lillard: So now slightly bigger questions here was there anything unique about this particular video store.

Howard Hughes and then Main Street video you know, all together, and you can separate it if you want.

Benjamin Hardcastle: um.

Anyway, cuz yeah we were more into having the kind of sections, you know person, I think it was more of a personable store, because it was like it had a lot of long term employees.

were shared like way longer, I think, then I don't know I think some places it's one of those kind of exceptional places probably like.

That movie madness in portland Oregon or.

scarecrow in Seattle, but there you have lifers to you have people that would put a decade or more of their life into working at a video store.

And I think that's because it's more was about having is about having the library like having everything it's like being like a resource.

In terms of which is different than like a blockbuster which you know they can have obscure stuff too, but they're more about just kind of the new things and making the money you know, having that blockbuster.

Because that's what a lot of customers just want that that's fine too, I mean that's the majority of the of the.

You know, because it's basically it's a commercial enterprise and blockbuster it's about you know there's a new movie and it's.

got a bunch of stars in it, and I want to make go get it, and I want it to be, you know blockbuster we get so many copies of things, and it would be there, and you go and you be able to get it.

And then you go watch it with your family or whatever like that, I mean the name says it all blockbuster I mean that was the thing they were about the big movies.

Well, some stores like Howard Hughes and scarecrow and stuff and movie madness and portland it's like they wanted to keep all the movies, even the obscure movies and concert.

Not necessarily focus on those but just definitely have that as as a big reason for their existence and they seem to have more longevity those stores, I mean certainly I think movie madness, you can still exists in portland I scarecrows done, I think, in Seattle, but.

Monique Lillard: i'm not sure it might exist as that.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Or maybe.

Monique Lillard: nonprofit.

Is alone Paul is going to speak to somebody from there and i'm not sure i'm not sure.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah i'm not sure I know it had to change, and I think that they want to keep the one in portland but it's struggling to, and it was some guy that owned it the whole go.

Monique Lillard: yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: who work there you is uh yeah some some guy had had that store in portland for 30 years for two years and.

it's those kind of stories, I think that you know are different than those little mom and pop ones, and they lasted for a while and like ones that just might be part of a convenience store in random but I heard sandpoint had a video store for a long time, and the independent one.

I don't know.

Monique Lillard: That actually yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Okay yeah.

Monique Lillard: yeah that's what.

Do you think this video store was important to Moscow because i'm viewing this as sort of a.

Benjamin Hardcastle: History out because.

yeah because I mean it lasted longer than my it's like a kind of.

a keystone business for a long time, because it was one of those that was just here along like longer than most of the restaurants, you know kind of like the nabi in or whatever, that was the restaurant that was there forever until.

became the breakfast club, I think, at some point.

Around the turn of the century, but it was the nabi was around since before World War Two and how less so, and the yeah some some of the older there's some.

Like they have a business like that last as long as it did, I guess, I mean it's speaks to it in some way that that it was popular with the Community.

supported it, you know.

As long as they could really.

Monique Lillard: Did the customers seem to create a Community of their own, did you did you observe customers sort of talking to each other.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh, sometimes yeah locals would know each other, sometimes groups of like younger people would come so.

You know, sometimes we we had regular sometimes there'd be regulars that would be like kind of like people in high school that were just really into the video store.

and

Monique Lillard: I remember that yes.

Yes.

Monique Lillard: Let me see here.

To you, who do you think is the most was the most important person at the video store.

Benjamin Hardcastle: um.

Most of.

Monique Lillard: What could be a name or it could be a position either either way you want to interpret that question.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Well, it.

depends on the.

time I don't.

I don't know I always thought it was kind of a collective I mean collective effort, sometimes she certainly had different better or worse employees, like some that were lazy or some that are more.

would take the initiative and kind of really liked being at the video store and work there for a long time, I mean it just it would depend, but that was we always kind of found some good good people there for sure that would stay there, a long time.

Monique Lillard: yeah it seemed as if you guys were having fun.

And like teaching, for the most part, you know so yeah.

i've asked that question to lots of people and many of them say the person behind the counter and how knowledgeable people were and I will just say right on the recording a lot of them have mentioned your name, in particular, have just.

Somebody they could go to and ask, and you know you know about the movie.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh yeah.

Monique Lillard: A suggestion you yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: have some true Oh, and I were there a long time and.

We knew.

Had watched a lot of movies and kind of you get to where you know the inventory.

Right, it was like.

People would come up and say, like this one movie and I just go grab it, you know, and that would be kind of fun and be like almost like a parlor trick.

Because you're in there you're in a you're in this tiny store like in the later years and mainstream video yeah you're in a kind of relatively cramped and crowded store full of.

You know 30 40,000 titles and you just go pick one off the shelf and it's the one that they want you know because they said they they say the name of the film and you just know where it is if you've been there long enough, you know it kind of like a library I guess you just like mill.

You know the stacks.

Monique Lillard: Sure sure.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Well, that was kind of yeah one and that and the other store to get have some people they're like bow and myself and the people that work there, a long time.

And Taylor brinkley work there, a long time, when I wasn't he was there along like.

He wasn't there are no two, but he worked with Bo there, I think I took his position and 11 or 12 or whatever, because he moved to Boise complete retailer.

But uh yeah he was there a lot of years a Gal named Emma also when I wasn't working there that was when I was working at red door but yeah that she was there for many years, did a lot for the store was pretty knowledgeable and then there is.

Chris that works if she was like kind of bows assistant manager work there for a long time, I mean they get they just had that kind of staff and then obviously rhonda Brett cross over there, you know, a long time.

In the 90s and 80.

that's it so Sean foster was there for eight years yeah Brett was there, he left, about a year after I started 98 he left in 99 but, but he was there all through the 90s, I think, quite a while.

And so I mean it was just that kind of a place where people would work there, a long time, even though it wasn't like the postal service or something where you're getting a pension and benefits and yeah.

Monique Lillard: You something you're saying it gave you something to.

yeah yeah can you describe what that is.

Benjamin Hardcastle: I don't know it's like well partially it's kind of neat to see the Community you get to see all the people like the townies.

You know, and even though Moscow has a transitory population, it also has a good permanent one, but it, but it also I mean obviously it's the students, they kind of come and go, people come and.

Some people just go right through and get their degree and other people like lingers day after coming here.

Because of the university but uh yeah it was that, like seeing the townies and then also it's just like I felt like it was an Honorable profession to just kind of.

give people just entertainment, you know be like a middleman but still you're it helps to be like a knowledgeable I mean that's the thing.

I worked in restaurants, for a long time to it's the same thing you're just a middleman you just give them people the experience you know I mean.

The food, I was never a chef or anything I mean I was just but you, you know what.

What the food's about and then with beverages same thing i'm not making the wine, but if you know what you're talking about it helps people appreciate it.

I guess it's the same thing with the video stores, if you know what you're talking about people appreciate it, so it was that.

I mean if you could yeah if you could demonstrate a knowledge of trivia then people kind of liked it and it was that kind of a showcase I think people that kind of.

As I said earlier on in this interview it's like the people across the country that.

worked in video stores for years and years across the country we're all people, I think a certain kind of person that's kind of into film but also into the like has a mind that grasps trivia and little details things all the time, so.

Monique Lillard: yeah, so why do you think the store struggled in recent years.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh well, recently, well, I could see it happening, certainly the last you know, eight years I worked there were when netflix started.

You know, but people say netflix killed the video store and people say that you know there's that legend I don't know if it's true that the guy who found started netflix had a big blockbuster late fee and he's like i'm done with this.

And then he started it that that is the story I don't know if it's been completely verified or if it's just you know, an American like a legendary thing.

But um but netflix didn't really impact the store that much because at the time, I mean.

netflix is model was they weren't making quite so much of their own stuff.

Their own shows.

And they really didn't have that biggest selection when it came to streaming and they kind of still don't other than their own products there's really not many movies, you could watch, like, for example, if you want to watch movies you've got like maybe 50 movies.

Like per genre So if you want to watch an action movie you can pick from about 40 or 50 things, half of which they may be made themselves.

But yeah you don't have much selection, so it didn't really damage the store that much as much as people think and.

And that but back then, when it started that did have the mail, you could get any movie you know you bought a subscription to netflix and you sent away for the physical movie.

So you could just get a DVD and that was and netflix moved away from that and I think that, in a way that that didn't hurt our business either I mean or it might have more.

When they were doing that because people could get almost any movie and just get it from netflix and that they paid the shipping and stuff and it was kind of an odd model but.

You just like send away for a movie they send it to you, then you send it back across the country.

But uh yeah the streaming what happened is like strict netflix got competition so then they're all sudden there's lots of streaming services.

And at that point people I think are invested financially in it that they don't want to invest financially in a local.

store as much, and I mean this when it got to be a lot of streaming services it adds up when you're paying for prime and you're paying.

And you can just rent things on there, you know, on prime but they're more expensive than the video store was but I guess it's the convenience, you know and they feel like they're already paying for.

A subscription every year, but I think the real thing that hurt, this was the red boxes that really took it hurt the most by far, I think, because of the new release it really took the.

The.

The luster out of the new release because that was really a big part of the video stores income is when the new movies come out every week.

that's what people want to see for several weeks is the new stuff and redbox will just get tons of copies of those and people could get them, you know, in a grocery store or the walmart or the window parking lot you know.

So people didn't have to make a separate trip and also it was difficult because of parking that the location was there was no dedicated parking it was that Main Street video that that location was more difficult.

I think, then, when it was Howard Hughes, but it was on fifth street there and then it had like kind of dedicated park people could felt a little more comfortable that they were going to be able to get park right near the store and go get a movie.

So I think part about those two things I think the red box because of convenience and because they just focused entirely on just new things.

They just get a bunch of new releases and killing our new release business the way they did I think really impacted the bottom line probably more than anything else, more than netflix more than streaming.

Monique Lillard: that's fascinating and you're the first person to say that, and I can see it, I can see it i've never used a red box in my life.

Benjamin Hardcastle: I have.

Monique Lillard: I have to tell you I wanted to put signs on it, saying.

You could buy local at mainstream video I really wanted to.

do that on, but I was afraid, it would splash back and get the video store.

yeah yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: But I think they're on their last legs now.

I think redbox is probably going to go away.

Monique Lillard: yeah yeah there you know, there was a while they're in terms of streaming I remember, I think it was you and Bo are you and Ian.

figured out, it would take 11 streaming services to even remotely REP replicate the over 30,000 titles.

Oh yes, store and you know now it seems to me they're even more streaming services, I get outraged.

That i've new display you know, and I I just think we gotta practice for a free one month at prime but everything we wanted to see you had to pay a whole lot more money for and.

It was ridiculous absolutely ridiculous.

Benjamin Hardcastle: there's not much for free on it, I I get time.

Just from my sister like a lot of people I don't know how streaming.

there.

Because most people, I know, like don't some people buy streaming but only, but a lot of people more people borrow streaming yeah more people just use netflix because somebody gave them their password like I use netflix and prime that my sister pays for it down in Berkeley.

You know and that's how that so I mean that they don't have many selections and that's what I liked about the video stores, I wanted to watch specific things.

You know and there's like things I want to do you know, like books, I want to read stuff like I don't really have time for so many movies, a week.

Even when I worked there when I was you know working there all those years, I could watch as many movies, I want it was free That was the That was a great.

perk probably the perk for employees is free movies, but the thing is I don't have even I get everything I would only watch, you know outside of work where you've got things playing you know, during business hours and stuff but like at home or something I would only watch probably.

Three or four movies, you know, every week or two you know not that many movies, I wasn't like going home and pounding two movies down every night, you know or anything you know you just.

And I wanted to watch very specific things you know you just have an idea of like you know yeah you're kind of choosy after a while kind of yeah you kind of have to be I mean there's only so much time in your life for movies and books and you have to.

At some point, narrow it down kind of look at the what you have time for so that's why I liked the Vegas the on the streaming to get anywhere near there's so many now because there's yeah there's hulu and and Disney just took a huge chunk of business away from Amazon and.

netflix because they bought they have all the not just Disney stuff but they own Star Wars and marvel comic books which are big blockbuster properties so bad it's too complicated, as to what who owns what and.

In generally it's just that yeah if you want to watch something specific it's difficult, I mean I use canopy probably most now.

Because they have a pretty big yeah that's through the library system, and they have canopy they keep a lot of foreign cinema they keep a lot of indie a lot of old a lot of old classics and find old black and white movies.

which I like so I can find things that I haven't seen before, but that I want to see, and they but they don't have everything, but they have a lot, and you can.

browse through, and they also have a lot of contemporary movies, I mean they just I just.

A week ago watched that best foreign language film The most recent winner another round.

Which is great with mads mikkelsen about the date is a Danish movie where they these people just decide they're going to be drunk all the time, because it makes them better at life.

So they keep their blood alcohol that point 5% for like ever all day and night, you know and just do it it's very interesting movie and they're all teachers, they all work in public education.

and

Monique Lillard: they're distributing it's a documentary no no it's a movie it's a drama station it's a story.

Okay yeah I was gonna say it's.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Really clever.

Monique Lillard: yeah yeah to find that one that's interesting.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah it's in it's just on canopy you know, for there and the canopies guys because it's all it's free but in your and I what I like about it actually is you're limited to for.

A month so you're kind of you're more choosy so you shop and you put things on a list you like put them on a watch list like i'm going to watch that.

You know, and then you can kind of look at your list and say like well, what do I feel like out of the after browsing for a little bit, but yeah it's the closest thing to a virtual video store, which is why I like it, I find.

Monique Lillard: out yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah and I find that Amazon and netflix are the antithesis of a virtual video store, I mean they act like they're giving you suggestions, based on what you watch but it's just the IT system, an algorithm, this is the machine and it's kind of junk.

And it's just like it's endless TV shows I don't know how they can afford to fund like you know 100 TV programs a year yeah and then I really want you.

Monique Lillard: To yeah foreign once to me yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: P TV that's what we're living in now is the bench people want to do TV more than movies, which is fine, because some ways the medium of television, you can tell a more detailed story.

But it's just gotten out of hand yeah I don't find it I like the video store model myself but that's because I like to show, I mean I use the library, I like to go to the public library and shop like look at the new.

The new books they've gotten or just go in the stacks and just look like oh.

here's their section on nature and to see if there's anything in there, you might want to read something about like the woods, or something I read this book about.

The nine mile wolves of Montana it's about 20 years old, I mean you just go on your brows and you can kind of pick out something specific.

But that was what was great about the video stores, you could you could spend a lot of time, but people, I guess, maybe they don't have the time they don't want to shop, you know or specifically.

Monique Lillard: I will it's interesting what you're saying several people have said, the thing about the video stores, it is first of all, the family would often go in together.

As you said, groups of friends would go in and there's the selection process and you look at this box and you touch the box, then you get the movie and there's a limited time.

And then you sit down with pizza or some people remember other foods they would eat with this group of people, and so the watching becomes more of an event and the selection has more deliberation in it.

Whereas the netflix model is kind of flick your finger, you know get this thing up and.

it's not good out go to the next yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: it's a scrolling and.

Monique Lillard: you're scrolling and you're giving it a shot now I mean netflix.

And I prefer the video store just I think everybody will know that, but you know I feel as if i'm learning a lot of foreign languages, because all these TV shows are in so many wild different countries, you know so it's like a travelogue during this coven year.

And I we first got netflix.

In January of 2020 as a matter of.

fact because a friend of duncan's was did the movie sets on the Kaminski method or something I think it's called it's a.

I didn't really care for it but anyway it's a TV show so.

that's when we got netflix but.

it's a very different thing, and of course it's much more alienated you know you can.

just sit by yourself and not see a soul and not interact with the soul, except for this algorithm you know but kind of feel as if you went somewhere because you're watching it on a screen.

So yeah but then, of course, I remember people complained that the video store was ruining the movie theater experience that there was something that was wonderful about being in this big auditorium with these other.

People.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Sometimes you have the movie theater experience.

I mean, I certainly remember the days before video stores, and I remember waiting in line for blocks to see Star Wars.

meets the empire more for.

Monique Lillard: Star Wars, I saw.

The real.

Benjamin Hardcastle: The first Star Wars yeah first or very little about, but I remember more is waiting in Seattle, I was in Seattle, because I had a lot of family in Seattle.

And I was in Seattle going to like one of the big theaters there when it was still showing like the paramount's are one of the big Seattle, one of those old theaters with the.

vaulted ceilings that seems so high, you kind of make you get vertigo you know it's just like.

So we waited had to wait three blocks to see empire strikes back that would have been what at I think yeah and it was just like this huge line and crowds and I thought it was pretty cool though you're a Cape because you're so excited because you know what's coming and it's the anticipation.

yeah line for like 45 minutes.

going around the block to get into this big theater you just know you're going to be in that big vader and that you're going to see something really cool because at that point.

You know you'd seen Star Wars X amount of times and you're like well the next what's the next chapter going to bring.

You know, and even though you know return of the jedi a lot of those old great movies, certainly was great to see him in a big venue like the old classics like I remember.

Saying like john carpenter's the thing and the big one, like theater like that was amazing or aliens the second and then kind of for big action movie.

Even like I had a lot of friends worked at the downtown theaters lots of my high school friends, and this is in the late 80s worked at the downtown at the kenworthy in the new art when they were just commercial theaters.

And, like the hunt for red October, that was a big deal They ran that for three months they had this huge all the huge cardboard signs, I mean the.

The studio went full on for the Promotion so they had, I mean that was playing at the camera the I want to say for like three or four months, like all winter.

And I have friends that would let you in for free, you know and stuff like that, and just be yeah it was a different experience back and.

I find theaters now it's it's the venues aren't that interesting the theaters are old they're more like a modern kind of mall thing and it's almost just like a big living room they don't seem that big you know at least the theaters around here.

Monique Lillard: Right Oh, and you can hear the sound from the other movie and.

yeah yeah, but I think movie makers must have started thinking about this, because you know there when you're designing something for a large screen and serious sound system surround sound or thx I just I can.

Just come back you know and then suddenly everybody's watching it on Oh, you know, like the thing that i've rented that I own I still own a little thing like that a little TV like this, you know with a shove, it in and then and now, people are watching on screens this big.

And that's got to make a difference if you're the if you're the movie maker.

fact I really wonder of the things they have little tiny print you're supposed to watch people write text to each other, and I think I can't see that, I mean I don't I don't have a screen this big I just have a screen about this big you know and yeah it's interesting.

i'm sure i'm sure many a thesis has been written on that.

Did you ever take class and film at the university or anywhere else.

Benjamin Hardcastle: um well when I went to evergreen there were sashes I studied like Russian history in Russian lead and the Russian film office, it was a big component.

of studying Russian culture, so that was the closest thing watching some pretty obscure Russian films.

Some been like you know and we watch them in the lecture hall is pretty big so it'd be like a big screen experience watching like tarkovsky.

movies or eisenstein or others like the Russians kind of pioneered film because they thought saw it is such a powerful propaganda is because they're always.

Because the regime was really interested, for the first half you know, up until the 50s you know in spreading the revolution.

And now, and so it was pioneering days for film in the 20s and it was pioneering and the Russians really soft that, and you know Stalin, who was in charge, like the longest he really liked film, he was a big movie guy yeah.

Monique Lillard: Interesting it's an effective medium obviously obviously yeah so.

What ended know I guess I should ask this before we get to the end, let me.

So when you were working there Gary so the store was owned the business was.

owned by a group of individuals, one of the main movers and shakers Gary Meyer died and.

untimely down.

Monique Lillard: Neil and pat moved away Kelly and deb had a lot of other stuff going on, they started thinking.

We got to do something about this and I remember, they put out something by the register and we wound up having meetings at my house, as a matter of fact, I think you were saying you came to at least one.

And ultimately, we went with the cooperative model, I mean I remember thinking about well how about if a bunch of us.

owned it privately again, in other words, another group of private people owned it some people said how about it becomes a nonprofit but eventually we went with the Co operative model that was technically, not a nonprofit so, in other words you couldn't donate and get a tax deduction.

they'll trust me it never made a profit.

You know, but yeah.

Monique Lillard: How aware, where you have all of those competing business models and what do you think about the cooperative model that was ultimately adopted.

Benjamin Hardcastle: I mean, I thought it was good to try to have the Community invest in the store, but it was kind of I thought.

In some ways, it was difficult to just kind of get people to buy memberships to sign on to it.

I think, because we're pushing it for a while, getting people to do that, and some people were really into it, I remember some people like this couple came about my age that came from Houston Texas, and this was probably in.

2017, but they were really into the video store because they had run a independent little video store out of their house in Texas.

In Houston but then that flood came whatever hurricane I can't remember the name of the hurricane, but you know Houston went underwater because they built the.

city so in in a floodplain so they just said after that experience, because then they were just done with Texas, these are there, originally from memphis Tennessee.

But they were, but he got a job at the ui.

And then again they got out of it, but they moved here and they were really into stores and sometimes you'd have people like that people that were just really ended the video store and right and wanted to buy into the membership.

And do that, but a lot of even like regular list rank and file customers just didn't understand it or didn't really want to do the Co op Member thing like become that so.

But yeah as far as your question I wasn't yeah I.

wasn't really I guess privy to a lot of like what kind of model, they were going for.

I mean I just heard about the Co op stuff and that was kind of described to me, and that was about the only one that I was sort of aware of, even though I attended that maybe one or two of those meetings back in the early days with Bo oh.

Monique Lillard: You are a manager I think co manager.

was a dinner with.

Benjamin Hardcastle: My co managed with the end for a while I was sort of both side after Chris left, I was sort of his side manager doing different projects.

And then bold and then we had Jamie hill for a while, from the can where they for men, and then in and I kind of both did it for me and started doing the campaign stuff that would have been in like 16.

For the election stuff he was working for some local the Democratic Party locally, and so, then I took the stick over and yeah.

Monique Lillard: Did it get hard when the Co operative took over, did you did it.

Your relationship with the owners did that get more complicated or not necessarily did it not.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Know vector necessarily good mm hmm.

No, it was it the main thing was just difficult it was just so difficult like how slow our business was just kind of draining away, it was just getting slower, I mean.

I really think it was red box that really put the biggest dent in it that would have been right in the early teens like around.

1213 when those stuff started being everywhere, because I just heard our new release days yeah so then all of a sudden, our Tuesdays.

Are Tuesdays Fridays and Saturdays which are the big days for people to do new movies there's the people that want to Tuesday, because that's the day stuff comes out.

The go getters that really want to see it, the minute it comes out and then there's people that are fine wait until that first weekend till they're done with their week.

And they're going to want and so that Friday and Saturday, and you just watch the numbers get smaller and smaller I mean because back in the.

old days I mean it wasn't we'd have Friday and Saturday, and it would be 3000 was like the bottom.

$3,000 each day you know, in the tuesday's would be to $1 tuesday's was $2,000 and then we switched it to Tuesday and Thursday, it was still.

$2,000 each night, which was great in it, I think the big we it was very rare for us to get to two in 2011.

And then that kept getting lower and it kept gaining like it was over 1000 and then eventually it would did not even we wouldn't couldn't get to 1000 except during holidays and stuff.

And that was really I think more than the streaming it was the red boxes and then because it was just convenient for them, I mean it was difficult because the video store.

I really felt if we had had a different location, it could have survived longer like I always was jealous of the safari Pearl location.

Where the Co op used to be way back in the day and where the safari Pearl was and now it's a gym or something yeah.

But just because there's dedicated parking and it's still on sort of a Main Street and people could drop that you could have a dropbox if people went next to the federal building on like second.

They could just drop things off in the back and then pull out on to Washington again.

that's something like that, where it was just easy and we didn't have the alley but the alley wasn't super convenient for people to pull up and drop movies off a little bit, but there's you know.

there's big delivery trucks there the Co op has all of their food all their deliveries go there and then john's alley has all of its beverage deliveries.

So it was very and there was no parking like anywhere, I mean because it's downtown so it was very difficult I figured that's when redbox really started.

kind of hurting us is because people could just get the new stuff right there when they go to walmart or window or rose hours or wherever they they are.

I don't think safeway had it because they have but that's something that a kiosk they had some machine it's their own machine it's not redbox but it's similar they safeway I believe had some kind of bending machine.

But i'm for movies, and that yeah just losing that new release revenue just killed us, I mean it's just because I could see the numbers and they're in 2011 was a lot different than 2002.

And was was not any different from 98 I mean at that point, it was just busy all the time, those those four years it was.

nonstop and I worked Christmas Day was the only day we're close they work most all those Christmas days.

Because i'm not sentimental about the holidays, and it was fun, because you don't live so busy because the holidays, we rented so many movies.

Somebody had to go in and kind of do the returns, because the box would fill up we wouldn't have route, you know.

You have to go in there, so I just go in there, and you could watch like some R rated movie because nobody's in this store is locked it's closed but you're just like putting away movies, you just go in and clock in for a few hours, because it was that busy.

And I remember them in my first tour of duty, it was busy I mean there are several years where I worked every day of the year.

What happened what seven days a week, I got like maybe one or two days off.

Like in 2001 2000 you know just I didn't mind being there you know, and it was just so there's always stuff to do that was like always busy, and in 2011 it was much different, and then I just starting it but still in 2011.

busy enough to it was sustainable for sure it was making money, I mean Gary and DAB and Kelly, they made money every year they got profit from it, but it just redbox just started killing my profit.

yeah oh yeah you could just see it every weekend and it was the new releases it's really that was like kind of the bread, but I was like you know the meat and potatoes part of the.

Budget of the money.

And because you know renting the old movies for $1 you know the the catalog titles that wasn't I mean that was money but it wasn't like a big source of income it's really the new ones, because you can charge more and their brief rent that's the big turnover.

So.

Oh good, no, no that's just saying so that was just that that's my conclusion it's just that redbox more than the streaming it was the it was the chaos.

Monique Lillard: Okay, just a few more questions.

So when did you stop working at the at the new location, I think you said.

Benjamin Hardcastle: I think in 19 it was one year before the year before the pandemic.

One year before that Connor.

Did it for a year.

Monique Lillard: yeah yeah and.

Did you stop if you choose to answer this did you stop because you saw the handwriting on the wall or did.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah that was basically it I just i'm surprised it lasted another year I don't.

So this is astonished, as to how they were making rent because we were quite behind on bills and rent stuff and it was getting kind of terrifying and it was also I just.

yeah I mean, I want to the store to succeed, but I just was like and i'd been there, a long time and I thought, maybe if somebody new like Connor that would be into it, that didn't have 12 years of doing it.

All together might come up with something so but yeah and it was just yeah it's just kind of depressing because it just seems like why aren't people using the store.

Monique Lillard: yeah yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: cuz we didn't have any parking in 2011 either, but it was a lot this year in 2011 you know when I first started again it's the same so.

Monique Lillard: When did you learn the store had closed.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh from Connor I mean I was going in there after I stopped I would go in and rent every week I mean I would pay my money and pick up my movies, I mean they'd let me.

rent for free, but I didn't rent for free, I mean I prefer to go in there and just get five movies for $5 or whatever it was and that's what I did I mean I have.

You know all the free movie credits I don't think I used any of those because I just I liked that shop and like I said in my life I liked going down there.

Picking things out for an hour or two and then that was it for the week and I just pick out five things, and that would be that would fill my week I find five I could get through those five out of the good nano.

yeah I didn't need a lot of movies.

But I wanted you know specific movies yeah so that's what's different about now you're just kind of putting things on, to put it on yeah.

You know net netflix has a show and it's just like you can binge watch it a few days and it's just like but you're like kind of its kind of empty side you know it's just it's not memorable you can't really recall much about it yeah that's the new model it's.

Less than less it's not really about choice so much is just killing time.

Monique Lillard: that's a very interesting point.

Benjamin Hardcastle: So yeah yeah.

Monique Lillard: Tell me final thoughts about the collection, that was developed.

Benjamin Hardcastle: mm hmm.

Monique Lillard: At the video store what, what do you think of it, what do you, what do you remember about it.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh, I just.

Remember, some of the some of the sections were.

Just I mean we had that criterion section, and I was famously the one that had all the kind of culturally significant, we had a good criterion section, we have most of the things criterion put out and then some of their spin offs and we had a pretty good foreign language.

Film section yeah.

And then.

yeah let's say, those are like the biggest.

Because the other sections like drama and family and even critics choice, those are like you know cool sections, but they didn't quite have the.

same cache yeah they were valuable most valuable movies, you know some of those.

Some of those criterion movies were worth the money out of print yeah it kind of thing.

yeah same thing with cult classics through some there's some pricey items in there.

Monique Lillard: Oh yes, now I don't know where those went, I believe that the criterion collection is still at the kenworthy not sold.

Benjamin Hardcastle: and

Monique Lillard: French movies don't tell the rating board, but the French movies, are still at the kenworthy.

I.

don't know about the cult classics I also thought that there were some pretty unusual ones in there and I yeah yeah.

So when you heard it was closing emotions, can you label them.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh, it was kind of inevitable, but it's yeah sad, I mean I felt like it was you know finally kind of over but that's just the way the industry is I guess you know with those kind of that kind of business I don't know some things.

seem to be perpetual I don't know there's always like bars and restaurants, which is another industry i'm familiar with and those kind of you know they come and go much more quick some restaurants you're lucky new the last.

After five years you've kind of made it, I guess, I don't know what the I can't remember exactly five years but there's some saying you know different like how how to gauge success in a restaurant then there's bars and things and cove It is certainly affected them.

quite a bit, but with things like that video store it was just yeah the medium has moved on and I don't know if it's I don't think it's better to not have video, and I think people miss them.

Certainly, even like millennial even like younger people because they can remember when they were very little going in i'm like I just read this article on.

Probably on vice news about just Reminiscing about the blockbuster the whole the smell of a block but they're just talking about the chain store, but the smell of a blockbuster.

That kind of new car new carpet and the candy never the movie you know that kind of people miss the experience and people go to that one apparently in bend Oregon quite a bit just for that.

The retro thing there's still one blockbuster left and yeah but yeah it was sad that Moscow couldn't hold on it, but it was they tried everything they could but it's the streaming stuff and then like the whole concept of late, I think.

wow how streaming really hurt the store more was that just that late fees became intolerable to people and because it was difficult kind of or less than less than optimal.

In terms of convenience to return movies, to the video store, then, then that became an issue, and I think a lot people stop renting there because they're just done with late fees.

yeah and then mind not having selection.

Monique Lillard: Well, my recollection is, if you bought into the video to the start date, if you bought into the cooperative membership you got reduced late fees.

yeah my recollection.

But maybe not reduced enough and.

yeah well in fact.

Any Monday morning quarterbacking maybe not naming names, but anything you.

think anybody could have done differently or better.

To save the store I.

Benjamin Hardcastle: don't I don't know what to say I think it's just the yeah the paradigm switched to think it was.

One of those I think I recall that blockbuster as a chain as a corporation just got rid of late fees altogether like right at the end of their existence and that didn't save them yeah.

yeah I think they at six late fees back in oh 708 when they're on their their last I was just so happy and proud of the store for lasting longer than any of the other local competitors.

Hastings stuck with it for a while and they're a big corporation, and they were doing they sold they had other sources of revenue they sold books and toys and music.

And they were backed up by a corporate entity from Texas, you know that stores all over the country.

But uh yeah we outlive them which kind of made me happy at the time I can't remember precisely when they went under, but it was like maybe 2015 or something, but it made me happy to see them go be like well we're the last ones yeah we survived.

So.

Monique Lillard: that's good so that's good So all in all you're glad to spent those years there, am I right.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh yeah yeah.

I still like the similar experience like I said, like going to the library, I mean it's but I mean and they actually have a you know decent.

The public library less so, but the you have I library just lots of movies, you can go and shop for and I, like the physical format, I like picking out a physical movie.

I go do it now it's almost like renting if you go to a guy like the the goodwill down and Lewis you just go, they have a DVD section two bucks a pop so you just go down there, and you buy DVD and you can find some pretty cool.

DVDs down there and the goodwill and spoke hands, even better, I mean you can find great I found like that classic Australian movie muriel's wedding.

There from the 90s with toni collette and I found a secret of RON English really cool like john sayles movie but they're in spokane for like $1.

Like a video store, but you never have to bring the movie back if you're.

If you like to.

Have a DVD collection.

Monique Lillard: Then you have to store it at home and.

Then you have to store it that's the thing that's I think people like.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Maybe the streaming is the reduces the clutter.

Monique Lillard: Okay, and being on.

The happiest funniest weirdest most vivid memories funny stories that you saw heard about.

Benjamin Hardcastle: um.

it's hard to it's hard to pick one, so I don't know just trying to think from the old days.

I mean.

Probably like the move was fun, I mean that was kind of like when they expanded in tooth in the spring of 2000 when the.

When the furniture and the mattresses all went away and we had this big space and we had to figure out how to do with it and the owners were actually there helping us like don frye and Kevin pietersen from Howard Hughes appliance.

They were there at the initial stages and some of their delivery guys, I mean it was like so it was like kind of a.

And they you know and we got bought pizza and everything because we just worked like 12 hour days for two or three day you know days more.

than I remember being there after hours and I just felt like you know, because there was no limit on what you mean there was so much to do, like organizing all the act putting the actor wall backup.

And all this stuff so I mean those were kind of good times I mean right, especially right, then it was still at the peak performance and.

You know that was when it felt like you know the video store matter to those owners who were kind of like.

not really involved as much don and Kevin and I heard that actually that's one of my regrets is I heard that they've kind of wanted to sell it for quite a while before they did.

And I wished, I could have talked my parents or somebody into getting the money to buy that video store from them.

Because uh it because back then, it made money, and I feel like you know, maybe you could have got you know squeezed a few more years of life out of it like if it maybe gotten a different location.

You know when they moved from the fifth street one you know, one that was with little easier for parking things like that, but it's yeah it's tough and.

You had a good run but yeah back then, when it was really busy, and it was kind of a family, and that was when they did that expansion, it was cool, because then at least the appliance people sort of cared or they were around you know yeah and I got to.

Get dirty with them, you know what I mean it was kinda.

Monique Lillard: Do you still have friends from all the years you worked at the video store.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Oh yeah i'm on Facebook and you know locally there's some like Richard park work there, a long time, back in the old days when he worked there when he was in high school, we were friends and we're still friends now and he's 40 now.

You know, he was in high school when we.

first started working when we first started working together at the video store and we've you know, been friends, ever since and bow, for example, and then like Rachel tompkins work with me several years back in the old busy days she's a nurse in portland now.

The portland Oregon area she's been down there since.

2002

So, but i'm sure she still remembers the video storm and there was a lot of feedback on Facebook and stuff about it when it went under.

which was you know, last.

When the pandemic when the lockdown last March, so I was actually the pandemic got me back on Facebook after you know about 10 years of.

Several years of not being on it, because for different reasons, but then because of the lockdowns and stuff it was kind of like well I Maybe I should do the social media thing again, so there was a lot, it was it was quite an outpouring of about that news.

Monique Lillard: I know I missed that I don't think I knew that so.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah.

When it went under their story it got.

On the grapevine Facebook quite a bit, and there are people are people to work in and there were people in Seattle that had worked there.

Or have a lot of people that just remembered going there a lot, because they may be spent some time in Moscow go into you buy or you know something and.

You know because I think it is a memorable store okay so just like a restaurant that lasted a long time that people liked her had experiences or a or a bar, you know watering hole you know.

So.

Monique Lillard: But that's all yeah.

Benjamin Hardcastle: This this lj yeah I think people are nostalgic for it now, but I don't know if they're I don't think they enough that they would be able to support it financially it's just be and now the model has changed like I said it's so hard to get How would you even get the stuff.

I guess libraries, do they kind of come up with some stuff but libraries might face that stuff out of it, you know just because of lack of room or people to stop having DVD players period, you know if there's no physical media at all.

Monique Lillard: I mean, I remember the day I found out that.

Modern computers didn't have the tray that you could use to play a DVD and.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah.

Monique Lillard: This is bad for the video store.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah.

Monique Lillard: Is that, because the young.

students coming in, have away and I talked to my students, they say, oh i'd love to go, but I just don't really have a way and.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah.

Monique Lillard: You know I just remember, and I think you remember, there was talk, should the store Brent DVD players and.

I know that the cooperative board Lauretta in particular spent a lot of time saying, should we move to this location should we move to that location, you know and rents were high and.

yeah hopefully know all of this, but I.

just wanted to because you'd mentioned it, I.

I mean other decisions, I suppose, could have been made, but they were explored.

You know people were doing their best but yeah yeah Okay, is there anything we didn't talk about that I should have asked you.

Benjamin Hardcastle: mm hmm.

I don't know I don't think so.

Monique Lillard: All right.

And I guess we're still recording and i'll just say this, if you.

come up with something.

Okay state to call me we've had several people do a little addendum to their interview and it's not hard to set this up at all.

And okay so don't even hesitate.

I think i've asked you everything, this has been much longer than I thought it would be so.

I want to give both the ball, especially you, a break here but i'm going to stop the recording and stay on for just a second, if you would but thank you so much you've said many things that have not been said before, so.

Benjamin Hardcastle: really help Okay, and if you come up with other questions you can.

We can schedule another one of these if there's some some other things.

Monique Lillard: I might do that.

Benjamin Hardcastle: If you review it and find out there.

Monique Lillard: And you know what i'm going to send it to both to review and he might actually be the one who calls you back with other questions, too, so if that's all right.

Benjamin Hardcastle: yeah we were there, the longest I think both both.

Monique Lillard: yeah and that would be cool because.

It filmed conversation fact you can come over to my house and and the in the same room if you'd like to so whatever as long as you.

Benjamin Hardcastle: Say yeah.

Monique Lillard: terms of the epidemic I don't know whatever yeah yeah alright so i'm going to stop this for a second and i'm going to stop it completely and.

Totally for a minute yeah okay.

Okay, all right so we're ending the record.