Episode 13 : Fish Lake Disasters : an interview with Allan Renshaw [transcript]

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:29:01 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: Welcome to the Sawai Bitterroot Wilderness History Project, which is made possible by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities, the University of Idaho and Washington State University. Part of the project’s mission is to collect, preserve, and make public oral histories documenting the history and people of the South Bitterroot wilderness. For more information, please visit our website at SPW lib argue idaho.edu.

00:00:29:03 - 00:00:54:01 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: And then I think people, I think people get so much out of being in a wilderness setting once you take away cars and money and telephone and people are different and they are different to each other, I think. And, and, and then they draw on things in themselves that maybe are a little rusty from our crazy life out here.

00:00:54:01 - 00:01:24:28 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: Now, I think the ways that people get along when they’re isolated in a place like that, that they place that they want to be familiar, is a wonderful thing.

00:01:25:00 - 00:01:53:20 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: Thank you for joining us for the 13th episode of the South Bitterroot Wilderness History Project. In this episode titled Fish Lake Disasters, we hear stories of some of the plane crashes at Fish Lake. The Fish Lake airstrip is located at the southwest end of Fish Lake, which boasts an altitude of 5646ft. Although beautiful, the location can pose a deadly threat to pilots who attempt to take off under the wrong conditions.

00:01:53:23 - 00:02:09:11 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: Besides being a wilderness pilot himself, Alan Renshaw has worked with his brother Jim as an outfitter based at the Fish Lake camp. Here he shares stories of the plane wrecks in Fish Lake and of the wilderness pilots that he and his brother knew personally.

00:02:09:13 - 00:02:21:04 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: You mentioned that there are a number of airplanes infest Lake. Do you talk about how many you think there are and some of the reasons why they’re there?

00:02:21:06 - 00:02:48:14 Speaker 4 Well, I know that the, the, the history of some of them. The first one that crashed was an air coop, that was an aircraft that was had the unique, ability to be flown only by the yolk. We didn’t have to have, rudder pedals. There was an interconnected, underpowered, and really should not have been at Fish Lake at 5000ft, mean sea level elevation.

00:02:48:16 - 00:03:14:08 Speaker 4 And by the time you add in the, the temperature and everything, well, the density altitude was much greater. That airplane made it completely across the lake since the lake, but it into the airport and was in crashed on the other side and in some rocks. And for a number of years you could ride by and you could see the aluminum parts of that, that airplane.

00:03:14:11 - 00:03:52:28 Speaker 4 Jim was in there at one point in time when an aircraft, that took off and crashed into the lake again, they did, do during, the heat of the day when they should have been flying someone who was close to the lake, another fisherman. And I can remember that, the Jim hopped onto a horse bareback, with some ropes and, galloped that horse all the way down, more than a mile and a half to the point where the airplane could be seen with a tail sticking up out of the water.

00:03:53:00 - 00:04:22:18 Speaker 4 The fishermen down there was a swimmer, and I, I think the story goes that they took a log or something and ropes out to the airplane, tied it to the tail, and then he dove to try to retrieve the, the occupants and was unsuccessful. you know, you can windbreak a horse by pushing them too hard. And Jim did that with that particular horse.

00:04:22:18 - 00:04:42:14 Speaker 4 That was not a healthy thing to do. Another aircraft took off and I wasn’t there. But, you got in on the aftermath of it all. It was a, a Super Cub with two people, and they made it off the ground, but he couldn’t climb high enough to get over the trees at the end of the lake.

00:04:42:16 - 00:05:03:17 Speaker 4 But he had enough room to make a circle around the lake. Now, why, he decided not to bank back to the airport and sit down, I don’t know, I suspect that he was a better pilot than I was, but he came back around and decided, I’m going to make this, so I’m going to put it in close to shore.

00:05:03:19 - 00:05:25:21 Speaker 4 And so he he put it into a slip and slide it within, probably 15ft of the shore and set it into the water. Both of those guys walked out of there. Now, that airplane sat there for a while. And that fall, while I was in, packing and guiding and had a little bit of time on my hands, went down to look at it.

00:05:25:24 - 00:05:51:16 Speaker 4 The engine had already been removed. the electronics had been removed. The only thing that was there was the, a pilot’s seat. And I was thinking, boy, we need something soft to sit on and camp. So I was in there taking this thing apart. And we had one hunter. There was a moose hunter, know, and the alternator there was across the lake.

00:05:51:19 - 00:06:17:12 Speaker 4 And, he may have had his fishing pole with him at the time because I think he was he was fishing over there. I didn’t know he was there. And there was a moose that came up to a little spot of land behind him and had him trapped, and he was off over there waving to me and trying to get my attention.

00:06:17:12 - 00:06:43:25 Speaker 4 And I was oblivious. I had no idea he was over there, went on about my work of removing the seat and taking it back to camp, and I heard about that that night from that fellow. there was no way, no way that I could have helped him, but, he was, he was definitely in distress. there must have been either 8 or 9 aircraft that crashed into that lake.

00:06:43:27 - 00:06:46:25 Speaker 4 All of them, because of density, altitude.

00:06:46:27 - 00:06:50:03 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: And can you explain what density altitude is?

00:06:50:06 - 00:07:32:06 Speaker 4 As the as the air becomes heated, it has less molecules available to create the lift, to the wing. That is necessary. I witnessed some very close calls. A group of hunters flew in with a 182, landed, and they were loaded to the hilt. There were four people in there, and they had all of their gear. and they let one person out, while they went to search an area that they might hunt on and came back and landed and decided they would go to Moose Craig.

00:07:32:08 - 00:07:56:01 Speaker 4 But as they as the fellow was standing there beside me, I said, you know, when he comes back and picks you up, just as a private pilot, I would suggest that you wait a few hours before you take off. Well, that pilot knew better than I, and he got in and they took off all right. But they used every bit of that runway to get off the ground.

00:07:56:03 - 00:08:34:11 Speaker 4 and very lucky to have made it another time was when, Lee Atkins, was flying out for us, out of Fish Lake, and we had some snow on the ground, and it was just enough snow that, that he couldn’t quite get it off the ground. And he made three passes down the runway, and at the windsock, he would shut it down, and then you could see him just sliding into and slowing it down, and then he’d turn around and come back, got out of the airplane and came over.

00:08:34:11 - 00:08:54:20 Speaker 4 And you couldn’t tell that he was shaken up at all. But he knew he was nervous enough because he shut the airplane down and they came over to talk to me and he says, okay, I’m going to try it one more time. And if it’s not off of the ground, by the time I hit the air sock, I’m just going to have to load part of this and, and leave.

00:08:54:22 - 00:09:28:13 Speaker 4 Fortunately, he got off the ground and left. But, you know, he was he was calling in close another airplane experience. And that first lake was when fall when, someone flew in from Florida with a rented, 180, Cessna 180 plane. And, he was taken out to a spy camp, but before he went out, he was talking with a family friend of ours and helper Stan Eppler, who was the better pilot.

00:09:28:15 - 00:09:58:01 Speaker 4 Had many hundreds of thousands of hours under his belt. And he said, you know, Stan, if you want to use the airplane, the keys on the dipstick, just go ahead. And we had another person there who was trying to find a moose. And Stan said, let’s, let’s go out and search. We can, you know, see where they are and then come back and tell him, because it’s illegal to, spot, a game from, an aircraft.

00:09:58:01 - 00:10:25:27 Speaker 4 And they immediately contact Hunter. So one morning, bright and early, we went down to the airport and in stand, and I got into the aircraft and I now know better. He should have known better. It was cold that morning, very cold. And he praised the engine and it wouldn’t start. He probably did a second time and it wouldn’t start.

00:10:25:29 - 00:10:47:17 Speaker 4 he was an experienced pilot and he should have known better, but he prime the the third time and it spit and sputtered. And then we had to flame, in the engine. And I jumped out and ran to the cabin, officially grabbed the the fire extinguisher a little on the outside. He reached under the pilot’s seat and got that one.

00:10:47:17 - 00:11:08:24 Speaker 4 We got the fire up. But you can’t fly an airplane that’s been on fire. So that airplane sat on the runway for about a week while a mechanic was flown in from or Fino, and they pulled it up to the cabin, and they raised the engine out of it and tore the whole thing apart and put it back together.

00:11:08:27 - 00:11:19:08 Speaker 4 It was a good thing that that pilot had, renter’s insurance, because I’m sure that that cost him $20,000. That was so.

00:11:19:11 - 00:11:32:07 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: could you just, tell someone living who hasn’t been the fish, like, why? Why getting up is, difficult, like, it’s it’s in a can and. Right.

00:11:32:10 - 00:12:05:22 Speaker 4 It’s a one way airstrip for most pilots. 1 or 2 people have landed the opposite way, but that’s not recommended. you know, one of the reasons that, that it’s a little bit difficult getting up is because you do have a lake at the end of it and the air temperature changes there. And so you want to be off the ground and then you can fly down the canyon if you would like, but that’s the it’s the difference in altitude, density, altitude in the air and the change in temperature over the lake.

00:12:05:22 - 00:12:09:09 Speaker 4 That makes it critical that you get altitude internally.

00:12:09:11 - 00:12:13:07 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: And then you have to fly over saddles. Right?

00:12:13:09 - 00:12:42:03 Speaker 4 Well, you do, but you also have the opportunity of going down the walks. So if necessary. And many times pilots did that in the fall when the cloud cover was low. And so they would squadron if you wish. that was that was always interesting out of Moose Creek. I flew out with a pilot one time in a Super Cub, and it was below the cloud level, and it started snowing on us.

00:12:42:05 - 00:13:18:08 Speaker 4 And so as we were flying down the river canyon, there are several opportunities to make a wrong turn. You can either turn up meadow quick three, turn up Jenny Creek, or you could stay with the river. And so as we were going, well, he would be flying and I would say right or left. And he would immediately correct, which was probably what happened with Joe Rosenkranz out of those Creek ranches who left, one fall and it was not good weather.

00:13:18:10 - 00:13:59:23 Speaker 4 And he flew down the river and, and crashed. the story was that he’d had all the money from people there. It was great ranches with him, and rumors spread that he had escaped to the country, and there was a big search for him. I think they had the National Guard out. They had, I know that standing up there was on the on the search, and it gave me an opportunity over the years after that because his plane wasn’t located for, I don’t know, 20 years or so, at least, to look in all of the various places that would have hidden an airplane.

00:13:59:26 - 00:14:34:24 Speaker 4 I was consciously writing and looking in a lake. How about that brush patch? You know, always looking for evidence. But, they did. They did find him, off from again, the great and, some of the hunters that were in that area that night, a few years later, I, I learned, had heard something down in that area, and this was from the Phil Roberts relatives, and that was probably the the crash.

00:14:34:27 - 00:14:41:08 Speaker 4 they were a mountain side over. So drainage over.

00:14:41:10 - 00:15:08:13 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Selway Bitterroot Wilderness History Project, which has been made possible by the National Endowment for the Humanities, the University of Idaho, and Washington State University. The project coordinator is Debbie Lee, recorded and produced by Aaron Jepson.