Pond, Sullivan Interviews [transcript]

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:31:03 Irvin Sullivan: Oh. Before you get on that track, you have to go to the the, report on form. And he gave me a clearance saying that all branches free, workers which stand on the side had no business being undergone, around the car or between them. So, one morning on about 9:00 in the morning. Why?

00:00:31:05 - 00:00:37:22 Irvin Sullivan: We, had to get on the track this side of the road, right? We didn’t need a clearance on.

00:00:37:22 - 00:00:41:06 Hal Riegger: Or was this a stub or a spur.

00:00:41:08 - 00:00:47:24 Irvin Sullivan: And would, Or today we’re going to stop on this Burgos stub.

00:00:48:16 - 00:00:50:22 Hal Riegger: just. And skirt joins back.

00:00:50:24 - 00:01:28:12 Irvin Sullivan: Around us from the spur. Yeah. Okay. we had to get on this. And while it was actually number 11, we had a lab on the Chronicle. had been on there where, tank car and there. Fellowship and lab and, we cut off this tank car, it down to a caboose that was in there, and we hit time to lose some ripped track, man stepped between a caboose and another car, and I drop our Mustang.

00:01:28:15 - 00:01:35:09 Irvin Sullivan: This is. We live about taking about an hour left.

00:01:35:12 - 00:01:38:03 Hal Riegger: Got.

00:01:38:05 - 00:01:45:08 Irvin Sullivan: He had known better than to with him on his car and we didn’t want that run happened.

00:01:45:10 - 00:02:02:14 Hal Riegger: I get, accident reports from the Federal Railroad Administration, because I’m interested in what happens. And the great majority of accidents are is the kind that you’re talking about.

00:02:02:15 - 00:02:03:03 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah.

00:02:03:05 - 00:02:05:18 Hal Riegger: And because some is not watching or not.

00:02:05:18 - 00:02:09:25 Irvin Sullivan: Careful and our failure.

00:02:09:28 - 00:02:15:29 Hal Riegger: Yeah. Most people think when they talk about accidents, they think it’s a highway crossing.

00:02:16:02 - 00:02:43:17 Irvin Sullivan: But yeah, that’s minor. I was always very lucky on the highway cross that, never hit a parking area. And one hit me. I always once driven by. I had realized already, and I figured I’d stop that. I understand, gentleman, and, they run into maybe their fault. along this line, Ronald Beaumont also my department that way.

00:02:43:19 - 00:02:47:17 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah, but, well.

00:02:47:19 - 00:02:52:12 Hal Riegger: Often there are people who want to beat the train there, you know, and they don’t make it.

00:02:52:14 - 00:03:18:09 Irvin Sullivan: Another example I’m not making it up here at Cherry Lane a few years ago, there was an extra grant out of headquarters and a bunch of lines behind him, and two demotions. They, them down there, I think about 730, 8:00, nine, 1:00 today. And some woman, on a branch thought she was going to beat this train.

00:03:18:09 - 00:03:27:15 Irvin Sullivan: But anyhow, the engines hit her and just cut her off a little junction. Mentally.

00:03:27:17 - 00:03:29:20 Hal Riegger: This was steam or they steam.

00:03:29:22 - 00:03:32:04 Irvin Sullivan: And now, years ago.

00:03:32:07 - 00:03:46:19 Hal Riegger: The, I’m just interested. What steam engines be damaged? more or less than diesel? on accident. Generally speaking.

00:03:46:21 - 00:04:04:15 Irvin Sullivan: I have something you got me. steam cars. You’ve got plant steam. So all level. Yeah, I diesel, you’ve got, well, steps up there.

00:04:04:25 - 00:04:08:02 Irvin Sullivan: well, I can hardly answer back.

00:04:08:04 - 00:04:10:15 Hal Riegger: Well, it’s a funny question to ask, I suppose.

00:04:10:20 - 00:04:19:15 Irvin Sullivan: No, we’re not running. That one is sure to hit Bell with that.

00:04:19:18 - 00:04:29:14 Hal Riegger: But I would guess that the diesel would be damaged more. I would just aren’t. The steam engine is pretty darn solid.

00:04:29:17 - 00:04:31:08 Irvin Sullivan: Zero. Yes.

00:04:31:11 - 00:04:32:05 Hal Riegger: So.

00:04:32:08 - 00:04:45:08 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah, I’m currently in that weather and do some weird damage. More.

00:04:46:02 - 00:04:50:06 Hal Riegger: they didn’t have radio, did they? When you had steam? No, no.

00:04:50:08 - 00:04:58:12 Irvin Sullivan: No, we,

00:04:58:19 - 00:05:07:02 Irvin Sullivan: I guess radio again was the first diesel and like, of down here in about 1954.

00:05:07:04 - 00:05:19:26 Hal Riegger: What what did you what were your responsibilities? in keeping steam locomotives operating, properly. What how much did you have to do?

00:05:19:28 - 00:05:47:05 Irvin Sullivan: You have to, as a fireman or an engineer? An engineer with an engineer about all I had to do. See that? The fireman. we only lubricated that lubricate or, a little ground on it. Dropped the ball into the pump and drop and each cylinder. Do the batteries go turned on and then on. Engineered. Have to do it.

00:05:47:07 - 00:06:07:18 Irvin Sullivan: Go around and on a thing. every volunteer so I wrong on time. Another say that the standards were all working. Firemen who had to measure the are okay. The tank was cold water vapor pressure drinking water on the engine.

00:06:07:20 - 00:06:23:12 Hal Riegger: Oh, I know gas was your water that you used in the, for a boiler around here? It was a pretty good. Or was it hard or generally problems were that.

00:06:23:15 - 00:06:31:22 Irvin Sullivan: As far as I know, there were no problems whatsoever. We just put on filling up the tank and I don’t want to fill it.

00:06:31:25 - 00:06:33:20 Hal Riegger: And have to treat it. No. Well.

00:06:33:22 - 00:06:42:04 Irvin Sullivan: Not to my knowledge, I don’t. We were never treated, never heard of.

00:06:42:07 - 00:06:50:11 Irvin Sullivan: Packed, tanks up there. I you know, Brian, that was pretty good. Clear water up there, right. Good drinking water.

00:06:50:13 - 00:06:52:08 Hal Riegger: Well, yeah. Yeah.

00:06:52:10 - 00:07:01:15 Irvin Sullivan: So there was no trouble in that respect,

00:07:01:18 - 00:07:06:18 Hal Riegger: I’m not sure I see you. Did you run passengers to.

00:07:06:22 - 00:07:17:15 Irvin Sullivan: Very low gravity? Not too much. You. Where? What about those passengers up there to bar or, come to get.

00:07:17:18 - 00:07:19:20 Hal Riegger: Where where did you go with passenger?

00:07:20:02 - 00:07:24:11 Irvin Sullivan: right. Range and stage.

00:07:24:14 - 00:07:31:07 Hal Riegger: What what, manifest V for passenger. How many?

00:07:31:10 - 00:07:39:14 Irvin Sullivan: Cars down here. usually a baggage car and one coach.

00:07:39:17 - 00:07:40:04 Hal Riegger: That’s all.

00:07:40:06 - 00:07:42:27 Irvin Sullivan: That’s all. yeah.

00:07:42:29 - 00:07:45:00 Hal Riegger: And what locomotive would you use for that?

00:07:45:08 - 00:07:54:07 Irvin Sullivan: You, on the term, 1300? Guess. As for our land. Pacific.

00:07:54:13 - 00:07:55:10 Hal Riegger: Like Pacific.

00:07:55:10 - 00:08:04:14 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah, I like Pacific. Was a perfect match and had the Union Pacific start.

00:08:04:16 - 00:08:07:04 Hal Riegger: As did you ask for,

00:08:07:06 - 00:08:09:22 Irvin Sullivan: 1300?

00:08:09:24 - 00:08:19:12 Hal Riegger: This is helping me now because I’ve got photographs. Yeah, with the numbers. And, you know, the numbers show. Yeah, but I don’t know about the different.

00:08:19:12 - 00:08:20:16 Irvin Sullivan: Classes all.

00:08:20:16 - 00:08:23:16 Hal Riegger: Out on this is what you say is helping identify the.

00:08:24:04 - 00:08:27:02 Irvin Sullivan: redundant, you know, the 1300 number.

00:08:27:04 - 00:08:38:28 Hal Riegger: I can’t tell you right now because I got a lot of them home, from new Jersey, which which just for fun. do you remember the number of one that you ran?

00:08:39:01 - 00:08:41:02 Irvin Sullivan: 1374.

00:08:41:06 - 00:08:42:27 Hal Riegger: 1374 and.

00:08:43:00 - 00:08:52:29 Irvin Sullivan: 1352? I grew up in one of the old. Is, this Glen think down on Pasco.

00:08:55:08 - 00:09:04:10 Hal Riegger: that’d be interesting. If I have a picture of either of those, then I can tie them with you.

00:09:04:13 - 00:09:10:08 Irvin Sullivan: Have I got an engine on display up there? Spokane up there. One of the parks.

00:09:10:11 - 00:09:12:02 Hal Riegger: Sir. Oh, a,

00:09:12:05 - 00:09:41:11 Irvin Sullivan: 3206 or some some commander, believe. Pacific. I think there’s one, but, but I had it on a, on the on Reno logger last night, and, hover noticeable and dry like this. I come down around through the park, and I you just a little bit of spray there and a spark off the approach. set the country on fire.

00:09:41:13 - 00:09:48:24 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah. I think plane engine is on this plane that passed from.

00:09:48:27 - 00:09:50:18 Irvin Sullivan: Think, I made all.

00:09:50:18 - 00:10:05:10 Hal Riegger: The, the Inland Empire Railway Historical Association has a lot of steam locomotives there. on some the fairgrounds. I don’t know whether that’s what you’re talking about or not.

00:10:05:12 - 00:10:29:23 Irvin Sullivan: I got way, way down. That’s a big, I was there during World Fair, one of the world’s Fair. I think, the large locomotive. I don’t get about the freight off of auto. I’m not too sure would run under the mallet. I think it’s articulated bearings. And, you know, depending on the model, the amount of the, joint and the metal.

00:10:29:23 - 00:10:30:06 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah, yeah.

00:10:30:07 - 00:10:32:24 Hal Riegger: I know I don’t think this is a matter.

00:10:32:24 - 00:10:34:17 Irvin Sullivan: Of I don’t really know all.

00:10:34:17 - 00:10:37:05 Hal Riegger: This. It didn’t strike me as being that,

00:10:37:07 - 00:10:53:22 Irvin Sullivan: We were up there in summer one five years ago, but. And I remember somebody, Bob Alexander, you know, where my dad lived. There had been a dandy doctor. He took a hundred thousand pictures. And there were a lot of. All right.

00:10:53:22 - 00:10:54:03 Hal Riegger: What’s his.

00:10:54:03 - 00:11:03:10 Irvin Sullivan: Name? Your dad been dead for three, four years. What’s his laugh? Alexander. Bob Alexander? And why?

00:11:03:12 - 00:11:07:24 Hal Riegger: Oh, it wasn’t his son Mark down there. No, no, that’s another Alexander.

00:11:07:24 - 00:11:12:07 Irvin Sullivan: Then there are no Alexander working down here. Is there?

00:11:12:09 - 00:11:18:07 Hal Riegger: I’d have to get my clapboard down and, but it seems to me Alexander is,

00:11:18:09 - 00:11:24:11 Irvin Sullivan: But anyhow, I want to tell you a little about, he was really talking about this.

00:11:24:13 - 00:11:29:17 Hal Riegger: Yeah. I’m I you don’t happen to have the negative to this, do you?

00:11:32:03 - 00:11:33:02 Unknown football.

00:11:33:04 - 00:11:34:25 Irvin Sullivan: And.

00:11:35:17 - 00:11:43:25 Hal Riegger: I’d like to try, no, I’m not this morning. I don’t have my camera with me. I’d like to try to copy that. If I could.

00:11:43:28 - 00:11:59:17 Irvin Sullivan: Well, first of all, know I would like to keep this picture. But if you could copy it without doing any dynamic. I wouldn’t do any damage. But I don’t want to tell you about this. this Alexander.

00:11:59:22 - 00:12:00:16 Hal Riegger: Yeah.

00:12:00:18 - 00:12:28:04 Irvin Sullivan: He’s got 100,000 of those powdered pictures. I didn’t know that. He took the picture of Troy Jensen up there at Park Water. had to put it on the back of a postcard and used it for a Christmas card. And banished up here to 1352. 1352. I don’t. Like around park. What are these? Damn.

00:12:28:07 - 00:12:30:19 Irvin Sullivan: You don’t wanna record all those junk?

00:12:30:22 - 00:12:38:29 Hal Riegger: Well, I know that’s all right. record anything you say. I’m not going to use it. Oh, no. But everybody. Everybody.

00:12:39:29 - 00:13:12:11 Irvin Sullivan: a jerk, John. But anyhow, if you get a hold of. Here’s why they live out there to pump water. She’s the one that loves the park. Yeah, they might have a lot of pictures. I don’t know what they would do with them. They would take a trip to Europe probably twice every other year, and they’d go like, like bombs and carry one suitcase, hit the highly run cars and do the laundry in somebody’s private home and stay with them free of charge.

00:13:12:16 - 00:13:27:01 Irvin Sullivan: There’s no what you might say. But anyhow, they took all kinds of pictures and mean, used to go around to these different meanings and show all these pictures.

00:13:27:04 - 00:14:05:07 Hal Riegger: Let me let me get my, clamp barred, because I’m sure Alexander. Where’d you go? Yeah, but you know what? The interesting thing. When I first came up here two years ago, somebody told me about the herb banks collection, pictures and the kind of a museum. well, I have been there and gotten copies of it, and, and they said, you know, he passed away, and, I said that several people.

00:14:05:08 - 00:14:19:03 Hal Riegger: I got a hold of her by stores. but they and one person said that she would. So he’s not living anymore. Well, what are you can. I just got this letter from in two weeks ago.

00:14:20:27 - 00:14:42:05 Hal Riegger: So I when I found him, I went up there and after I talked with him a few minutes, he said, it’s okay to call me Herb Hawks. And I’m like, I said, herb, you know, you don’t look very dead to me. Oh, look sort of puzzled. And I said, well, several people said, you died. And he laughed.

00:14:42:07 - 00:14:42:28 Irvin Sullivan: You good?

00:14:42:28 - 00:14:44:10 Hal Riegger: Funny.

00:14:44:24 - 00:14:47:01 Irvin Sullivan: warm water on the. I’m sorry.

00:14:48:04 - 00:14:51:06 Unknown Speaker: On our bandstand. Our way. Nickel.

00:14:51:09 - 00:14:55:26 Hal Riegger: That’s, that’s Mark Benson. Is he out towards that way?

00:14:55:27 - 00:15:01:25 Irvin Sullivan: No, he lives up here. Along with address.

00:15:01:27 - 00:15:06:21 Hal Riegger: I’m sure I’ve got it, but I wonder if he’s one of the ones who’s gone away this summer.

00:15:06:24 - 00:15:07:29 Irvin Sullivan: He could be.

00:15:08:01 - 00:15:12:07 Hal Riegger: One person I wanted to get a hold of his gone for the summer.

00:15:12:09 - 00:15:29:15 Irvin Sullivan: I. I, you didn’t go over to see ash burns display of engines. You got a room? there’s plenty of room. Railroad move. All right, Ashburn.

00:15:29:17 - 00:15:30:28 Unknown Speaker: You mean toy railroad?

00:15:31:00 - 00:15:34:01 Hal Riegger: Yeah. Now tell me, is he over near the river?

00:15:34:01 - 00:15:34:29 Irvin Sullivan: Yes.

00:15:35:02 - 00:15:38:12 Hal Riegger: Oh, wow. Nice house right up on the hill.

00:15:38:14 - 00:15:40:11 Irvin Sullivan: I’ve never been near to his home, but.

00:15:40:13 - 00:15:48:13 Hal Riegger: I saw I visited him two years ago, and he does have a lot of things, but they’re not necessarily accounts. Perry.

00:15:48:14 - 00:15:50:03 Irvin Sullivan: You know that drive and.

00:15:50:03 - 00:15:53:29 Hal Riegger: I cosign on it just. Yeah, it’s very stuff.

00:15:54:02 - 00:16:11:19 Unknown Speaker: Well, that’s Bob Alexander. He was constantly taking pictures. That was it. Hobby and especially take pictures of every engine that he could find. and he can, you can notes, all of this stuff too. And he did. But this one.

00:16:11:19 - 00:16:13:18 Irvin Sullivan: Time, did you give an address?

00:16:13:18 - 00:16:16:01 Hal Riegger: I’d like to try to reach his wife.

00:16:16:01 - 00:16:28:27 Irvin Sullivan: If you can’t reach her, get Ahold of the board. the boy, he’s, a bookkeeper or something. I didn’t do him as much money. Yeah, that’s sacred, aren’t they?

00:16:28:27 - 00:16:33:03 Unknown Speaker: Ben Alexander. David. And then.

00:16:33:05 - 00:16:33:16 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah.

00:16:33:20 - 00:16:36:16 Unknown Speaker: You know, I don’t have their address. I just have the mailing.

00:16:36:16 - 00:16:38:13 Hal Riegger: Address or bank. Sorry.

00:16:38:16 - 00:16:40:24 Unknown Speaker: Oh, okay. All right. I mean, I.

00:16:40:24 - 00:16:45:15 Hal Riegger: Won’t be up there again now anyway, I just was last week, but,

00:16:45:17 - 00:16:51:27 Unknown Speaker: Yeah. Okay. What? 1155511.

00:16:51:27 - 00:16:53:11 Harold Pond: Five five.

00:16:53:18 - 00:17:01:11 Unknown Speaker: Five Mark Warner, station.

00:17:01:13 - 00:17:05:10 Unknown Speaker: Yeah. And Spokane. Six Washington and Stanford.

00:17:05:10 - 00:17:10:11 Hal Riegger: Pacific. Spokane, six. that’s,

00:17:10:14 - 00:17:10:17 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah.

00:17:10:21 - 00:17:15:00 Hal Riegger: Look at that. How old that was? Yeah.

00:17:15:02 - 00:17:25:01 Unknown Speaker: 99211270921 mine not six. Well, they yet they still I mean, still have that right on her middle. oh.

00:17:25:01 - 00:17:31:06 Hal Riegger: Really. Yeah. Both 912199.

00:17:31:07 - 00:17:34:06 Irvin Sullivan: 92119921.

00:17:34:06 - 00:17:48:29 Unknown Speaker: One. Yeah. No no one way nickel. it’s another little thanks railroad man that likes that car. Likes to remember things the way nickel.

00:17:49:01 - 00:17:52:04 Irvin Sullivan: I don’t know him well I.

00:17:52:07 - 00:17:53:29 Unknown Speaker: Yeah and him.

00:17:54:01 - 00:18:15:02 Irvin Sullivan: I don’t know if he would be much used to Harold or not. Well, do you have vulnerability? No, no, you’re just vulnerable. Right. and a doctor down here shot, and a small at the back with a needle and broke the needle on a saddle on my lower extremities, and they of sit on the right. You’re dead wrong.

00:18:15:04 - 00:18:16:12 Irvin Sullivan: Kill. And they remove, remember?

00:18:16:13 - 00:18:21:22 Unknown Speaker: Yeah. Oh, sure. All along, the chemistry here when he didn’t.

00:18:21:25 - 00:18:22:04 Irvin Sullivan: Have.

00:18:22:04 - 00:18:27:17 Unknown Speaker: Anything and he liked. Well, maybe he. Yeah. He likes to remember things about people.

00:18:27:17 - 00:18:35:19 Unknown Stories about people, you know, that were. They were rowdy. I don’t know, it’s just that, in my.

00:18:35:22 - 00:18:40:21 Irvin Sullivan: You’re about about being in there all alone. Pictures of Alexander.

00:18:41:06 - 00:18:47:13 Hal Riegger: did you ever hear of a man by the name of Doc Dalton? Dalton? How? Dalton.

00:18:47:15 - 00:18:51:14 Irvin Sullivan: Oh, often. Doctor? No one?

00:18:51:17 - 00:19:15:09 Hal Riegger: No, he was an agent. I’m not sure where or whether it was here or on the way up. Lost or something, but he had a lot of pictures. And he is in Spokane now. I won’t see him. And, Yeah. Great. Peculiar. I thought maybe he was drunk government, but he. And they tell me that is he did have a lot of photographs.

00:19:15:09 - 00:19:38:15 Hal Riegger: Good ones. Several people said, we’ve got good ones. They were burned in the fire about two years ago. They lost almost all of. And the reason he was acting peculiar was that just a couple of days before I saw him last week, he’d had a stroke. So I’m sure. And here he was alone, nobody taking care of him or anything.

00:19:38:15 - 00:19:40:14 Hal Riegger: I, he and his wife and had a.

00:19:40:28 - 00:19:44:16 Unknown I don’t know what a horror guy.

00:19:44:18 - 00:19:52:02 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah, Dawkins and me and, Sinclair pressed a button, but I can’t really.

00:19:52:05 - 00:19:55:27 Hal Riegger: Yeah. Picture him. And a lot of people seem to know.

00:19:55:27 - 00:20:19:00 Irvin Sullivan: Of them or know about him. But that man, Alexander Maddox, if we’d been alive today in Canada. And if you didn’t join his talk and stuff like that. Yeah, he did pretty well. He was one of the engineers on that train from headquarters that run over that time, that one of were Jerry Landy. Yeah, yeah. No. Well go on slugger.

00:20:19:00 - 00:20:24:15 Irvin Sullivan: Well, slugger lived there on a block. Yeah. He talked to a man in LA.

00:20:24:18 - 00:20:28:04 Hal Riegger: What do you know about, Earl cash.

00:20:28:07 - 00:20:29:09 Irvin Sullivan: Arnold English.

00:20:29:12 - 00:20:31:20 Hal Riegger: Yeah.

00:20:31:23 - 00:20:37:20 Irvin Sullivan: He used to be, bridge and building foreman. Yeah.

00:20:37:28 - 00:20:45:18 Hal Riegger: I talked with him, and he didn’t say. I didn’t seem to get very far with him. he’s still living there.

00:20:45:19 - 00:20:50:11 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah, yeah. You know, he was born in Albany now.

00:20:50:14 - 00:20:50:24 Hal Riegger: Yes.

00:20:50:24 - 00:21:18:00 Irvin Sullivan: He is. He, he, got promoted here. Where did building inspector. Something for the railroad. When I heard, fireman? Not generally. No, no, no, I gave him 60 days to turn into driving, and then they bought him out. No, they didn’t buy him on. They just land on. What for? gasoline on. This happened years ago,

00:21:18:03 - 00:21:47:10 Irvin Sullivan: He didn’t get along with the, their manager at that time. Harbor? No, hardly. Thank you. yeah. Here. You can’t to him. No, I haven’t, he used to be an operator up there on the Spokane. Been down here? You were retired here. So 19 years ago, a man boarded a young lad from down south. A 32 year old man.

00:21:47:26 - 00:21:57:02 Irvin Sullivan: Brewer. Yeah, yeah. Permanent job and general manager. Yeah. Okay, that won’t be much. I he, haven’t had experience.

00:21:57:14 - 00:22:00:19 Hal Riegger: yeah. It seems awfully young to me. not a job.

00:22:00:22 - 00:22:03:21 Irvin Sullivan: But my.

00:22:03:23 - 00:22:05:14 Hal Riegger: Lot just changed this year.

00:22:05:15 - 00:22:08:07 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah. The month or so ago was.

00:22:08:07 - 00:22:11:05 Hal Riegger: He was trained last master before that?

00:22:11:07 - 00:22:14:00 Irvin Sullivan: Yes. For about a month.

00:22:14:03 - 00:22:16:04 Hal Riegger: It was train master only for a month.

00:22:16:11 - 00:22:20:02 Irvin Sullivan: Not very long. yeah.

00:22:20:04 - 00:22:23:15 Hal Riegger: Well, I know he’s having honest, I know I am.

00:22:23:15 - 00:22:49:20 Irvin Sullivan: But after he got here, Walter Arnold decided to retire. Well, I think he did. 19 years. Yeah, and I think it takes 20 years to retire. Or an operation, from the get third to fair retirement anyhow. Yeah, but, I remember my good friend grow, so I think probably had a little political pole. Romney, was a big shot up there or something.

00:22:49:20 - 00:22:56:16 Irvin Sullivan: But the kid and send him up here for the experience, which is very possible. Yeah. More about him.

00:22:56:18 - 00:22:59:12 Hal Riegger: Well, it seems like he’s awfully, for that job.

00:22:59:18 - 00:23:03:15 Irvin Sullivan: But, hope it makes it all.

00:23:03:17 - 00:23:17:16 Hal Riegger: I think I, you know, he took me up last year on the high rail up, headquarters, and then also, from grapevine back down here, and we talked quite a bit.

00:23:17:18 - 00:23:17:28 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah.

00:23:18:14 - 00:23:27:29 Hal Riegger: he’s definitely a company man. Of course. Oh, yes. That’s you sure. But it seemed to me he was very fair about things.

00:23:28:01 - 00:23:34:08 Irvin Sullivan: He had to go. Yeah. I don’t know if you’re willing. You can’t do this, man. Alexander.

00:23:34:11 - 00:23:35:01 Hal Riegger: Well, I can.

00:23:35:04 - 00:23:39:29 Irvin Sullivan: Know about him and I. But,

00:23:40:01 - 00:23:45:24 Hal Riegger: Well, I’ll certainly try to reach his, wife, and I hope if I do rider that.

00:23:45:27 - 00:24:16:10 Irvin Sullivan: She used to send us, Christmas cards. She has not. Not for a year or much between. She had another boy down and fell from place from an officer. Some. But the school college Park, the kid who was out going through all the education you can get and you never made any sign of, I ended up being the truant officer.

00:24:16:12 - 00:24:27:28 Hal Riegger: It’s.

00:24:28:00 - 00:24:31:27 Hal Riegger: I have to write notes to myself, for sure. I look back on this.

00:24:31:27 - 00:24:34:13 Irvin Sullivan: I don’t know that you remember. Yeah, I remember.

00:24:34:13 - 00:24:49:03 Hal Riegger: What the situation was like. I. I just put your name down there recommending Alexander. Yeah. So that I don’t remember. I, asked, why do you do this sort of thing? You run into some money? Yeah. got to do that. Yeah. To keep it straight.

00:24:49:08 - 00:25:20:29 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah. Humanities. And if we get a hold of that war, David in Marathon, I remember my good Bob built that home farm, worked about three years ago. And he was an expert at that. and, he built this home for the kid, the savings and money. And he went home and died. Counter delivery? Yeah.

00:25:21:02 - 00:25:29:11 Hal Riegger: Well, can you think of anything to add to this?

00:25:29:13 - 00:25:38:20 Hal Riegger: I don’t know what kind of questions to ask. Really? Yeah. Just. more after your personal experiences and.

00:25:38:20 - 00:25:47:19 Irvin Sullivan: Any, but.

00:25:49:12 - 00:25:55:26 Hal Riegger: You must have had. Is there a calling tower or something here for the steam engines?

00:25:56:03 - 00:25:59:04 Irvin Sullivan: Oh, yeah. the oil. Yeah.

00:25:59:04 - 00:26:00:10 Hal Riegger: Tanks and all.

00:26:00:12 - 00:26:05:12 Irvin Sullivan: The,

00:26:05:14 - 00:26:33:26 Irvin Sullivan: The old coal chute used to take, about to GA a coal. They’d run it up, and then from there, pull it up the cable, get it up on top, and then dump down and shoot. There’s about three chutes on each side. They bring new engines, brought to shoot down a little over the year. It carriage or auto recall them all up and down.

00:26:34:07 - 00:26:39:11 Irvin Sullivan: I don’t know why he drop it down, but it shouldn’t.

00:26:39:13 - 00:26:41:14 Hal Riegger: That was down here near the roundhouse.

00:26:41:17 - 00:26:52:27 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah, sure. Well, yeah. Well, been torn down now for, I don’t know, very, very nervous. Yeah. And, and so they’re talking about carrying that around out.

00:26:52:29 - 00:26:54:21 Harold Pond: There on the.

00:26:56:23 - 00:26:59:25 Irvin Sullivan: Oh no I think there’s only three, four stalls out there now.

00:26:59:27 - 00:27:05:00 Hal Riegger: That’s my recollection. There were about four, stalls or how big was it.

00:27:05:02 - 00:27:34:19 Irvin Sullivan: Your property. About nine stalls I don’t there, I don’t know, there’s four. But anyhow, they’re talking about getting ready. They took the farm and order from the ground here. The first couple of weeks ago. I took the farm and from the ground out over the both of on, I have it out of the men on the road. I have another round of post hole junction.

00:27:34:21 - 00:27:36:12 Hal Riegger: You post homes.

00:27:36:15 - 00:27:50:01 Irvin Sullivan: In the plant. Nobody knows how they got the job. The roundhouse foreman. Patterson. You remember farmer. There was a dandy good around. I was born right up to stomp on everything.

00:27:50:03 - 00:27:52:19 Hal Riegger: On our own. Manages, Patterson.

00:27:52:19 - 00:27:53:01 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah.

00:27:53:01 - 00:27:54:23 Hal Riegger: Does he have a son working there?

00:27:54:24 - 00:27:55:15 Irvin Sullivan: Yes.

00:27:55:17 - 00:28:01:03 Hal Riegger: That’s the name, not Alexander Patterson. So I, I, I see there’s.

00:28:01:03 - 00:28:02:18 Irvin Sullivan: Some at the switch.

00:28:02:20 - 00:28:10:11 Hal Riegger: Yeah, that was the name, not Alexander. Yeah, yeah. Patterson is young.

00:28:10:13 - 00:28:11:20 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah. He’s live.

00:28:11:23 - 00:28:12:15 Hal Riegger: Is retired.

00:28:12:15 - 00:28:38:02 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah. It’s been retired for new mom. And they didn’t have anybody that would want or take the job as farm. so he picked this hotel up for a while. He’s sweeping around here and pulling up my vinyl. And on the machine, this album on Piper retired. Why? They just picked him up. They offered it to one other guy in there that were definitely good.

00:28:38:04 - 00:28:43:05 Irvin Sullivan: He had been an alcoholic and very careful as long.

00:28:43:08 - 00:28:43:20 Harold Pond: Did you have.

00:28:43:24 - 00:28:56:15 Hal Riegger: A problem with alcoholism when you were engineer? I don’t mean you personally. I mean just generally.

00:28:56:18 - 00:28:59:05 Irvin Sullivan: Well.

00:28:59:08 - 00:28:59:24 Hal Riegger: I mean, I.

00:28:59:28 - 00:29:05:15 Irvin Sullivan: Won’t go any farther. If I did.

00:29:05:18 - 00:29:19:21 Hal Riegger: I think you’ve answered the question. I, that’s surprises me because I read about this, do you know why it would be that right?

00:29:19:23 - 00:29:41:14 Irvin Sullivan: No, I can’t answer that. But personally, I never do it. Never. Good question for spirit beer in my life. Yeah, I don’t I don’t like it. We go to Canada once every year and bring back. I have bottles that I could air or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I praise around. Good. Give it to people I know and I never even sample it.

00:29:41:15 - 00:29:57:06 Irvin Sullivan: I can’t tell you what of two. Very well. There’s when I was a kid, I lived up there in Canada and solve. Well, it’s thrown out of the swinging barnyard land and the butter. yeah. That got my father. but anyhow.

00:29:57:08 - 00:30:07:07 Hal Riegger: I can understand why that would be a problem with, you know. What was that? That was there that much pressure to the job.

00:30:07:10 - 00:30:20:19 Irvin Sullivan: And I don’t need pressure to get drunk or what is happening in their skin and their blood. I tell you.

00:30:20:22 - 00:30:30:19 Irvin Sullivan: I won’t mention any names. But anyhow, on my when I was on the stage, wrong on, we are out of, our funeral.

00:30:30:26 - 00:30:31:03 Hal Riegger: You know.

00:30:31:18 - 00:30:58:29 Irvin Sullivan: family. I stayed I got up there one night at one of the to the break between drinking, you know, I only had two riflemen at the bunker, so I think the the on the sober. All right. Yeah. Fun. Anyhow, I call him, I just I said you put that on the booze. I laughed it off.

00:30:59:02 - 00:31:03:19 Irvin Sullivan: I’m going try this job on right now.

00:31:03:21 - 00:31:27:22 Irvin Sullivan: I’m one half of the patrolman of the village will go around then I work slowly, and so I was awful terrible. I was working so over a different station, but, hey, what do you know? he put a, couple of women and that the village living on him, and liquor was driving all the up there.

00:31:27:22 - 00:31:33:17 Irvin Sullivan: I guess. And that one I ran on. But when I got.

00:31:33:19 - 00:31:37:25 Irvin Sullivan: There’s no one. And not a pleasant thought by any for a minute.

00:31:37:26 - 00:32:08:02 Hal Riegger: I know I get, in the mail, I get the monthly magazine that, Norfolk and Western crooks, and also Santa Fe and every issue, there’s something to do with trying to prevent alcoholism clinics to go to and all that. Yeah. And it just strikes me what is there about railroading? It seems to promote alcoholism. I got.

00:32:08:05 - 00:32:08:29 Irvin Sullivan: I don’t know.

00:32:09:01 - 00:32:10:27 Hal Riegger: This is what I can understand. No.

00:32:10:29 - 00:32:32:10 Irvin Sullivan: Our county about diet plan machine machinist out here. That was a dandy. That machine alcohol got him and the company was good enough to send him over to Missoula and ride him out for 8 or 10 months and brought him back, and he straightened to Alabama. And he right here, right now and one of the finest machine if you ever saw.

00:32:32:13 - 00:32:48:29 Irvin Sullivan: And they talked about giving him the job, was Foreman, but they didn’t know how long it would land until I it but, oh, well, but he was a good machinist. He learned his trade down here in Spokane.

00:32:51:27 - 00:33:08:14 Hal Riegger: Well, I’m going to see if I can track that, sometime. I’m just curious as to why, if indeed there is more alcoholism among railroad workers, and I don’t know what else. among other professions, there might not be. Well, I.

00:33:08:14 - 00:33:31:19 Irvin Sullivan: Know I can tell you that now, the railroad is not a hard work by any means. These train men, they get up and ride. And, again, in those days, they may have 20, 30 minutes walk, and then they get together again and ride another 20, 30 miles and get out. And, that’s what I would say. Just killing time.

00:33:31:19 - 00:33:39:26 Irvin Sullivan: Tomorrow night at nine, just on something little, just nervy, nervous. The nation.

00:33:39:29 - 00:33:49:23 Hal Riegger: Has, with railroading, the the the, consequences of being drunk could be far greater than with a.

00:33:49:23 - 00:34:13:18 Irvin Sullivan: Lot of profession. Yeah, yeah. You killing people? Yeah. We had a man on the down river country a little lower. you come to work drunk and let one 1 in 1 day. The hard to get up there, run on to. There’s no nothing. I would tell him the real drunken just pulled him off. My shirt was right there.

00:34:13:19 - 00:34:16:27 Irvin Sullivan: Never a member.

00:34:16:29 - 00:34:18:17 Hal Riegger: Why would they let somebody go.

00:34:18:17 - 00:34:19:14 Harold Pond: On who was drunk?

00:34:19:21 - 00:34:49:11 Irvin Sullivan: Oh, how can you how can you hardly water? you’re an engineer. You’re. Well, you’re drunk. You’re all about here on a down river. Right? And everybody knows that you’re drunk. But if anybody would turn you in, you’ll get fired and you’d get a black man. They arrest a man for turning.

00:34:49:14 - 00:34:58:29 Irvin Sullivan: On. Be the safest thing to do to turn you in. And I might save my life by doing you sure I don’t want to do.

00:34:59:08 - 00:35:10:17 Irvin Sullivan: go to church when you do. Right. When I hang up there, I could have him hazard working. Like, what am I, the Bible?

00:35:10:19 - 00:35:12:23 Hal Riegger: I’m not. Yeah, I can understand that.

00:35:12:23 - 00:35:21:03 Irvin Sullivan: Right. Well, you’re looking for, to help. Morning. In the morning. We’re pretty well. So we’re not,

00:35:21:05 - 00:35:24:23 Hal Riegger: But why they would let somebody go out with his job?

00:35:24:25 - 00:35:28:03 Irvin Sullivan: They won’t. The manager would know that. We knew it.

00:35:28:06 - 00:35:29:00 Hal Riegger: We knew it.

00:35:29:03 - 00:36:03:03 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah. Nine times out of ten, we’ve got no way. Only not understanding that. Now, we knew that, hardwood floors after that follow up done on, well, double the and down below room hardwood. You’re not going out tonight. Turn around. Just call so-and-so and tell, follows up around Spokane. little town and several of them. And an engineer can just have electric,

00:36:03:06 - 00:36:30:03 Irvin Sullivan: You know, all that. Jump on it and, all and I want amount of water I don’t call on. I can’t tell you. Everybody off. And, there’s nothing great. All right? I’ve never taken a glass of beer. I tasted the stuff, but I can’t go. But I want it. That well.

00:36:30:05 - 00:36:42:13 Hal Riegger: Well, Harold, I can’t think of anything else. Gosh. Well, probably ten minutes after I leave, I’ll think of something you’re, Are you going to be here through the week?

00:36:42:16 - 00:36:47:19 Irvin Sullivan: Very comfortable. I got the cure. I first played.

00:36:47:21 - 00:37:01:26 Hal Riegger: Well, I can, call you and, say, I’d like to copy this picture because this is something you’ve told me about. Yeah, yeah, if I could do that.

00:37:01:29 - 00:37:03:19 Irvin Sullivan: I learned from it and.

00:37:03:22 - 00:37:10:04 Hal Riegger: Won’t take me very long. I think I’ve got a good camera. I can get right down close. Done.

00:37:10:07 - 00:37:14:02 Irvin Sullivan: All right. You call up River when you’re ready.

00:37:14:04 - 00:37:21:00 Unknown I will make. And,

00:37:21:02 - 00:37:25:25 Irvin Sullivan: All done in Diamond Warren as a rule order. How are you gonna walk today?

00:37:25:27 - 00:37:29:25 Hal Riegger: We’re exercising. well, I’m sorry what you said.

00:37:29:27 - 00:37:49:26 Irvin Sullivan: We’re not too hot. We get down here and walk about for exercise. Yeah, it’s about an hour. Yeah. Where you drive down here and up there and down the park. Down just about straight through there. Walk up. You can get back to where? That car. There’s our place.

00:37:49:28 - 00:37:50:27 Hal Riegger: Yeah, yeah.

00:37:50:27 - 00:37:59:29 Irvin Sullivan: We’ll walk up that bike. Go down just about down to the railroad bridges and shoot down in the back. Yeah, I never, I never did too often I.

00:38:00:04 - 00:38:09:04 Hal Riegger: Wonder why we don’t go down. What’s, what’s a good time to phone you any night? Like in the evening before hand over.

00:38:09:05 - 00:38:13:07 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah, yeah. And anytime.

00:38:14:06 - 00:38:21:03 Hal Riegger: I could do the. I think I could do it right here. That’s that’s this kind of good light on. Yeah.

00:38:21:05 - 00:38:23:09 Irvin Sullivan: You know, we’ve got more light.

00:38:23:12 - 00:38:27:16 Hal Riegger: No, that’s all right. I just think it’s just reflection off of it. Yeah.

00:38:27:16 - 00:38:31:11 Irvin Sullivan: Oh, mine. Take it outside. And, you.

00:38:31:13 - 00:38:41:11 Hal Riegger: Know, I’d rather do it in here. it’s better than the bright sunlight. Yeah, because the bright sunlight reflects back on us. Well, no, this better.

00:38:41:14 - 00:38:47:23 Irvin Sullivan: Would be better for you or the evening or daylight or even the best for you.

00:38:47:25 - 00:38:49:07 Hal Riegger: Oh, daylight like this.

00:38:49:08 - 00:38:58:03 Irvin Sullivan: Any any any time. Yeah. I don’t know what that ideal time is. Between 12 and 2:00.

00:38:58:05 - 00:38:59:03 Hal Riegger: I did take a nap.

00:38:59:10 - 00:39:17:26 Irvin Sullivan: Now all of the bosses are gonna fall. Ballpark’s. You gotta watch. I often I’m either watching it or taking a nap. So anytime between 12 and except then. No. You can come in. I can water. I don’t have to watch on time.

00:39:17:28 - 00:39:21:10 Hal Riegger: Well, I’ll. I’ll, I’ll go off and see what’s why.

00:39:21:11 - 00:39:26:25 Irvin Sullivan: I. We have the rainfall until it’s another one done.

00:39:27:19 - 00:39:50:24 Hal Riegger: this may be interesting, especially since you told me about it. Oh. Yeah. I don’t want to put a make an issue of Rex. No, no, but, 1 or 2 in a book is always interesting. Yeah, yeah. and I’m glad you told me about some of the numbers. the steam engine you ran. Because it just made me that.

00:39:50:24 - 00:39:57:19 Hal Riegger: I’ve got pictures of what it was I don’t have. I, I wasn’t paying any attention to that, and.

00:39:57:19 - 00:40:03:17 Irvin Sullivan: I got them, only loaned to me in Spokane again.

00:40:03:19 - 00:40:08:16 Hal Riegger: I just was there, and I’m on the way home now. I live in California.

00:40:08:19 - 00:40:09:14 Irvin Sullivan: California?

00:40:09:15 - 00:40:24:21 Hal Riegger: Yeah, well, I can’t know. Not too far from Sacramento, so I won’t be up to Spokane for a while. Yeah, maybe not until next year.

00:40:24:23 - 00:40:39:19 Hal Riegger: So, like, with this Mrs. Alexander, I’ll ride her and I’ll put a stamped envelope in there. And I hope you know that she will answer. can I mention your name? Oh, yeah. In recommending,

00:40:39:22 - 00:40:52:28 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah, yeah, very much a very personal friend of ours. but they’re all good friends. Father. He had a friend we know. Oh.

00:40:53:00 - 00:40:53:08 Hal Riegger: Sure.

00:40:53:12 - 00:40:54:13 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah, we enjoyed them.

00:40:54:18 - 00:41:14:28 Hal Riegger: And I tell you, Harold. whatever. I use that you have said if I work in for about a quarter the directly, or if I just put it in my own words, I’ll send it to you first and see if you approve of what I’ve said before using on that. Okay?

00:41:14:28 - 00:41:21:08 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah, sure. Okay. Sure. I don’t know if it would need to do that.

00:41:21:11 - 00:41:43:25 Hal Riegger: Well, I’d feel better. Yeah. That’s okay. Yeah. you do that sort of thing when you, when you write a book, you’ve got to be very sure that whoever’s involved approves of what you’re writing or lives on because the publisher doesn’t want anybody to come back on them. Yeah, yeah. Saying something.

00:41:43:27 - 00:41:48:18 Irvin Sullivan: I’ve got a brother down there in a part on that. road. I’ll go.

00:41:48:20 - 00:41:49:07 Hal Riegger: Oh. Have you.

00:41:50:20 - 00:41:59:10 Irvin Sullivan: he’s a schoolteacher. Retired here a couple of years ago. Yeah.

00:41:59:13 - 00:42:02:05 Hal Riegger: When you write a book about what he told.

00:42:02:12 - 00:42:07:27 Irvin Sullivan: No, I wrote a book about him. Travels and B.C.. He was born. Raised there. And we. You see.

00:42:07:27 - 00:42:10:18 Hal Riegger: We’re about now not.

00:42:10:24 - 00:42:13:23 Irvin Sullivan: I have.

00:42:14:15 - 00:42:19:15 Hal Riegger: I know that place fairly well. I taught up there for about seven summers.

00:42:19:25 - 00:42:22:06 Irvin Sullivan: up there? Yeah. one year.

00:42:22:22 - 00:42:25:01 Hal Riegger: 65 to 72.

00:42:25:03 - 00:42:28:06 Irvin Sullivan: I went to grade school up there. You did? Yeah. Yeah.

00:42:28:09 - 00:42:29:20 Hal Riegger: You mentioned Canada.

00:42:29:20 - 00:42:29:26 Irvin Sullivan: I know.

00:42:29:26 - 00:42:31:09 Hal Riegger: I just asked you.

00:42:31:11 - 00:42:40:17 Irvin Sullivan: To jump on that number, didn’t. Yeah. I it’s, it’s an a one. I think that’s, closed.

00:42:40:17 - 00:42:42:23 Hal Riegger: Down, which.

00:42:42:26 - 00:42:44:13 Irvin Sullivan: I don’t know. It’s closed down.

00:42:44:15 - 00:42:57:23 Hal Riegger: It’s taken over by what’s called, is it land garage college? I don’t know, but they combined with the, technical school up on the hill.

00:42:57:24 - 00:43:00:10 Irvin Sullivan: Oh, yeah. Up there now. Yeah.

00:43:00:10 - 00:43:05:16 Hal Riegger: And then Castle Da, that was a college. And those three are all together now.

00:43:05:16 - 00:43:09:02 Irvin Sullivan: They are. And or did you live when you were up there.

00:43:09:04 - 00:43:10:10 Hal Riegger: On the campus?

00:43:10:11 - 00:43:14:21 Irvin Sullivan: Oh, yeah. I’ve got a sister and a brother on there today.

00:43:14:23 - 00:43:15:18 Hal Riegger: Okay.

00:43:15:20 - 00:43:21:23 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah. I lived, You know where the hospital is?

00:43:22:00 - 00:43:22:18 Hal Riegger: yeah.

00:43:22:20 - 00:43:37:20 Irvin Sullivan: Well, not too far from the college, but they lived down on our street. Then I’ve got a brother on, who done an observatory all on this gentleman down school at Bucknell. That and another day in college.

00:43:37:22 - 00:43:39:09 Unknown Speaker: Okay. One thing I.

00:43:39:13 - 00:43:51:05 Irvin Sullivan: Have done about, I’ve gone to grade school up there and about Bob Phillips up there. Two girls, Observatory Street.

00:43:51:08 - 00:43:59:04 Hal Riegger: I don’t know exactly where that is, but is that on the north end of town? Sort of both. It’s near the hospital or.

00:43:59:06 - 00:44:07:04 Irvin Sullivan: Or the school of American mine used to be. You see.

00:44:07:06 - 00:44:10:16 Unknown Speaker: Them? They knew where Phillips Motel was.

00:44:10:19 - 00:44:11:12 Hal Riegger: Which hotel?

00:44:11:19 - 00:44:15:09 Irvin Sullivan: No. Motel. No no no.

00:44:15:11 - 00:44:18:16 Unknown Speaker: No. No. No.

00:44:18:19 - 00:44:22:22 Irvin Sullivan: Before you get into Nelson.

00:44:22:25 - 00:44:25:16 Hal Riegger: Which on the left side? Oh, not on Mastercard.

00:44:25:16 - 00:44:27:19 Irvin Sullivan: And no, on might not either way.

00:44:27:19 - 00:44:29:12 Hal Riegger: Toward one more toward one.

00:44:29:12 - 00:44:39:24 Irvin Sullivan: Yeah. Okay. It’s on the left hand side before you go down Stanley Street. Going down the bank. Oh, yeah. If you go up there, one of the local bars paraded around.

00:44:39:24 - 00:44:47:02 Hal Riegger: No, that was before I, came there. well, how long since you’ve been up there?

00:44:47:05 - 00:44:48:23 Irvin Sullivan: I was up there last year.

00:44:48:25 - 00:44:51:11 Hal Riegger: Do you know any engineers up there on speed?

00:44:51:11 - 00:44:52:14 Irvin Sullivan: Yes.

00:44:52:17 - 00:44:56:25 Hal Riegger: Getting to know Mel Ferraro.

00:44:56:28 - 00:44:59:22 Hal Riegger: Is no a Canadian?

00:44:59:24 - 00:45:17:27 Irvin Sullivan: A name rings a bell. But I know John up there. Jimmy Young, I don’t know him. And another. But, Johnny. Johnny. He died a year ago. Johnny.

00:45:17:29 - 00:45:22:26 Unknown I, I know.

00:45:22:28 - 00:45:25:22 Irvin Sullivan: Pearl.

00:45:25:25 - 00:45:30:10 Hal Riegger: Camis. Prairie road and Missoula. Some of his stories. That’s when.

00:45:30:13 - 00:45:33:10 Harold Pond: I know. Yeah, well, this whole.

00:45:33:11 - 00:45:35:27 Hal Riegger: Braveheart run this well.

00:45:35:29 - 00:46:06:14 Harold Pond: Is a story about that. This old, old grave alongside the railroad tracks and the what we know of it. That when they were building the railroad, they brought everything in on a boat because there’s no road down there. The in fact, there’s no road where this grave was anyway. Yeah. Anyway, even even before it was flooded. So the history was that there was an old guy working down there on the relocation, and they’d gone over the hill, the saloon down there, and yet faster they came back and died of pneumonia.

00:46:06:17 - 00:46:27:07 Harold Pond: Oh, if no one knew him or knew anything about the history, except that was just what somebody had said. So Mr. requested the manager, previous manager of the counties for railroads going down the river with John moved out and he stopped there and he said that grave. He said, John put a marker up there and put a little fence around that grave.

00:46:27:09 - 00:46:53:04 Harold Pond: John said, yes, sir. He said, what shall I put in their name? What what name shall I use? I didn’t know it was his old Pat Ryan. So they put that on there. Well, when, when the relocation the Army Corps of Engineers naturally didn’t want to flood this grave, that they might get into a little trouble. So they inquiring of the Union Pacific Railroad, because that was a section of the Union Pacific River.

00:46:53:07 - 00:47:12:03 Harold Pond: You see, the cameras compose the Union Pacific Railroad. And so they inquired around and there was a John Ryan. He was a claim agent. I mean, he was afraid agent. They rode him and I saw the letter that he wrote back, and he said that he might have been a distant cousin, but he said, if there’s any legacy, just send it to him.

00:47:12:03 - 00:47:21:13 Harold Pond: He’d be glad to take care. But anyway, I have that picture. I was down there on a motor car one time and I took this picture.

00:47:21:16 - 00:47:23:21 Hal Riegger: And this is located where?

00:47:23:23 - 00:47:35:02 Harold Pond: Well, I wasn’t sure exactly. And I called the fellow who painted it this morning, but his phone is busy. I’ll call him again and see. John Root tells the one to put up marker and then he’s still.

00:47:35:02 - 00:47:36:19 Unknown Speaker: Alive.

00:47:36:22 - 00:47:41:16 Harold Pond: And his phone is busy all the time, so somebody must have left the phone off the hook.

00:47:41:18 - 00:47:44:16 Hal Riegger: I had to cut them roughly where?

00:47:44:18 - 00:47:48:07 Harold Pond: About the probably 15 miles inside to repair. Yeah.

00:47:48:09 - 00:47:49:09 Hal Riegger: Oh, look at this.

00:47:49:09 - 00:47:52:29 Harold Pond: Yeah, somewhere down there. I’ll try to find that. Anyway.

00:47:53:00 - 00:47:55:05 Hal Riegger: Would be down there if it’s been flooded in.

00:47:55:05 - 00:48:09:12 Harold Pond: Oh, yes, it’s flooded there. It probably got 100ft of water over it now, you probably have this picture. they that was when they were building the Lawyer Canyon Bridge.

00:48:09:14 - 00:48:17:26 Harold Pond: That bridge is 1600 feet high and it’s 298ft high. I mean, it’s 1600 feet long and 298ft high.

00:48:18:02 - 00:48:21:21 Hal Riegger: So that’s 300. You took this photograph?

00:48:21:21 - 00:48:29:29 Harold Pond: No, no, it was taken. That was taken when that thing was being built. That was that was it. Six years before I was born?

00:48:32:04 - 00:48:33:20 Hal Riegger: you’re born in 1912?

00:48:33:25 - 00:48:36:03 Harold Pond: Yes. I was born on June 13th.

00:48:36:03 - 00:48:37:20 Hal Riegger: So you’re 71?

00:48:37:22 - 00:48:56:03 Harold Pond: Yes, I’m 71. So anyway, there’s a little story about that. There’s a fella. He used to live right down around the corner. I worked with him on the bridge crew named Boyd Gribble. He didn’t know he was doing some work way up there to top. And the. And the road comes pretty close. You go on the road to Granville.

00:48:56:03 - 00:49:18:29 Harold Pond: You can look up there and see this bridge. You’re just within a stone’s throw of it. And there was some tourists down there. This lady hollered up there and said, oh, hi, are you my hazard? He says, 298ft. Shouted back, you damn liar! Why don’t you make it 300?

00:49:19:02 - 00:49:29:07 Hal Riegger: Yeah. Yeah I have, I’ve forgotten this, but, it seems to me it was the other way around.

00:49:29:09 - 00:49:31:16 Harold Pond: Oh, it could have been. Let’s see, I.

00:49:31:19 - 00:49:33:29 Hal Riegger: Just reverse, you know, that way.

00:49:34:11 - 00:49:40:19 Harold Pond: it’s probably best. Probably. This is probably correct, because I think that’s from the lowest.

00:49:40:19 - 00:49:42:27 Unknown Speaker: And try to get here.

00:49:43:00 - 00:49:50:04 Harold Pond: Okay. And they would be they would be building this from the lowest inside. They couldn’t very well build it from the Greenville side and let’s.

00:49:50:04 - 00:49:51:15 Hal Riegger: Say couldn’t bring the stuff out.

00:49:51:19 - 00:49:58:13 Harold Pond: Oh there was no road in there. I don’t think so. I think this is correct. This is from the lowest inside.

00:49:58:16 - 00:50:01:26 Hal Riegger: Let’s see. This would be.

00:50:01:28 - 00:50:08:05 Harold Pond: Yeah. That would be looking that would be taking it from the south side or side.

00:50:08:08 - 00:50:16:02 Hal Riegger: Yeah. Maybe I’m remembering it wrong I don’t know. But I thought it was the other one. Yeah.

00:50:16:04 - 00:50:38:07 Harold Pond: Here’s some pictures of oh that the train stuck in the snow by Finn years ago. They used to have quite a bit of snow up there. And then those that send a couple of snow, a couple engines with a snowplow there, you know, Russell snow plow, this Russell snow plow, it gets stuck in the snow bag and snow.

00:50:38:10 - 00:50:54:11 Harold Pond: Well what happened? It’d go through and it would make an alleyway through there. And then the next time they’d go through, maybe they’d still go through, but they put some snow on the side, and pretty soon the snow was up to the top of the engine. And compressed there. And then there was no place for the to push the snow.

00:50:54:11 - 00:51:21:23 Harold Pond: This Russell could hardly throw it over. It would just push it aside. But what is that for? Are you. Oh thank you. Oh, I better take that. Sorry. Yeah. It’s pretty weak with it. Looked like it. And then it gets stuck in there. So when I was working on the bridge crew that naturally holler for the bridge here, we have to go up there and dig these engines out, and then we dig cross pieces.

00:51:21:23 - 00:51:44:17 Harold Pond: Is why there’s a shovel here about two feet wide. This could just just kind of make a cut there about six feet. Another cut another cut them so that these trains would have a chance to slam through the snow. And then they get back there. I often they just come boom. And then they’re they to hit that as hard as they can hit it.

00:51:44:19 - 00:52:01:20 Harold Pond: Well there’s a picture of them stuck in the snow and we’re digging it out. But one time up there they had got they had brick. They broken the old Russell up. In fact, a man used to write in the Russell, a pilot used to write in that thing. Well, they broke it up. He didn’t happen to get hurt.

00:52:01:22 - 00:52:19:22 Harold Pond: So the next time they took a big gondola and they filled it full of rock, and then they improvised pile on the front of it. Yeah, well, they were up there plowing and they had, I guess I don’t know whether a train was stuck up there. But anyway, when they, when this occurred, this accident, they had five engines on that thing.

00:52:19:24 - 00:52:40:19 Harold Pond: They’re rolling right along in the Greenville and find their snow was almost gone, blown clear up there. And they he had a switch up there at one of those logging one of those lumber yards. And and the snow plow took off across this switch and they took the five engines and they that ass over at the time just just married them out there.

00:52:40:22 - 00:52:50:10 Harold Pond: And Ron Jones, incidentally, has a picture of this wreck taken from an airplane. There’s five engines up. Oh, well.

00:52:50:12 - 00:52:52:20 Hal Riegger: I’m going to see Ron later on this afternoon.

00:52:52:20 - 00:53:15:15 Harold Pond: Yeah, you would be a good idea. Well, anyway, he’s got a good aerial photographs of that wreck. there was one man trail fireman when it when the smoke cleared, they couldn’t find trip. And when they lifted up one of these engines he had rolled out of the window on the fireman side. Ninja rolled him into the mud, just pushed them out there on.

00:53:15:20 - 00:53:18:10 Harold Pond: But he died instantly. The lucky thing, this.

00:53:18:16 - 00:53:21:03 Hal Riegger: One here was this.

00:53:21:06 - 00:53:28:21 Harold Pond: Well, I wish, you know, I wish I knew, but Ron would know because you got that photograph. But anyway, there was this.

00:53:28:21 - 00:53:29:19 Hal Riegger: And you get on there and go.

00:53:29:19 - 00:53:50:21 Harold Pond: Through another site. This. You probably won’t want to do this. There was so much steam and so much noise and so much commotion. Some of the bridge men were, well, all these red men riding on those engines. one of these, we had an involuntary evacuation. Well, he missed his pants.

00:53:50:21 - 00:53:51:00 Hal Riegger: Yeah.

00:53:51:03 - 00:53:53:04 Harold Pond: Let me share his pants.

00:53:53:11 - 00:53:54:01 Hal Riegger: With that hat.

00:53:54:01 - 00:54:14:27 Harold Pond: So he got one of his pals, and they went out there in the snowbank and made his pal help him. They tore up a pair of shorts and clean them off. And he sworn to secrecy. Oh, you know how to head back in the outfit. I just want to start saying something. The other one. Take me now. Just a better Harry, he said.

00:54:14:29 - 00:54:24:10 Harold Pond: You better be careful. I’ll tell what happened up there. Great Hill. And pretty soon the story got up. He had a big laugh about it.

00:54:24:12 - 00:54:42:02 Hal Riegger: Well, it may seem all I do was I give it, you know, it’s it’s important. And, when you’re doing something like this in the book to, to be able to date the occasion and where, where and when things important if. Yeah.

00:54:42:09 - 00:55:02:24 Harold Pond: Well, of course that wreck it. That’s they know exactly where it was. It was the first lumber yard then coming in to Granger west of Granger. Oh. And the date will be on that photograph. Sure, sure. Here’s a wreck. Bridge 20, which, incidentally, coming down that mountain, there’s a quite a curved mountain there.

00:55:02:29 - 00:55:17:27 Hal Riegger: That’s good. that’s a good photograph. Now, this is much better than than those other two snow wrecks. Those would be a little hard to reproduce. Yeah, I’m sure this is a good one. You don’t have to have negatives for.

00:55:17:27 - 00:55:23:13 Harold Pond: I don’t know, but you could have that if you wanted to. But I don’t know where they had the negative or not. I don’t think so. Anyway.

00:55:23:14 - 00:55:24:23 Hal Riegger: What carry on this then.

00:55:25:00 - 00:55:26:23 Harold Pond: What happened there? They came down.

00:55:26:25 - 00:55:27:29 Hal Riegger: You know. Where is it?

00:55:28:01 - 00:55:46:16 Harold Pond: Right a bridge. That bridge is gone now. Right at bridge 20. Right at this, this mouth of tunnel one between cul de sac and rivers. Yeah. There was a bridge there with a Howe press on it. And if it was a 16 degree curve coming all the way through tunnel one, you have you seen tunnel one?

00:55:46:23 - 00:55:47:22 Hal Riegger: And through it, you know.

00:55:47:22 - 00:56:05:16 Harold Pond: Oh, well, I had a photograph of that one time. I went way up on the mountain there, and I took a photograph of the train going through the tunnel and coming out of it. They use that photograph and several newspapers, magazines in the West. And I had sent it down to Boise. Somebody wanted to use it in a magazine or something.

00:56:05:16 - 00:56:08:19 Harold Pond: You want to get the negatives back to the tour.

00:56:08:22 - 00:56:25:01 Hal Riegger: Let me just say something here. This, this is about a photograph that, that I or Irvin Irvin Irvin is letting me use shows you recording that speech? yeah. So right up.

00:56:25:02 - 00:56:28:21 Harold Pond: Here. That’s right at bridge 20, just to the west mouth.

00:56:28:23 - 00:56:29:26 Hal Riegger: Bridge 20.

00:56:30:02 - 00:56:52:13 Harold Pond: Bridge 25, the west end of the tunnel, one between 32nd Row Bridge. Yeah. And the thing about this, this wreckage, it was caused by the engineer put in the air on the train at the wrong time. There. When they come down that mountain, they have to very carefully handle the air. And he can he snap the train off?

00:56:52:13 - 00:57:04:05 Harold Pond: The tunnels are off the bridge. They’re lucky it didn’t occur in bridge in the tunnel, because that tunnel must be 1600 feet long. It’s in a great big curve in their 16 degree curve.

00:57:04:08 - 00:57:12:14 Hal Riegger: And this is interesting. It shows the old Lackawanna Railroad before they merged with the Erie. I used to ride that back.

00:57:12:16 - 00:57:13:12 Harold Pond: Oh. Good day.

00:57:13:14 - 00:57:24:06 Hal Riegger: Oh yeah. Pennsylvania. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, sure messed the bridge up in that.

00:57:24:08 - 00:57:25:23 Harold Pond: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

00:57:25:25 - 00:57:27:13 Hal Riegger: Now that that’s gone now.

00:57:27:15 - 00:57:28:08 Harold Pond: Yeah. The bridge.

00:57:28:08 - 00:57:29:22 Hal Riegger: With the Phillies in the run.

00:57:29:25 - 00:57:46:07 Harold Pond: Did pretty well. It’s cement steel bridge now. Oh. Because that the road they built cul de sac to Winchester. That new road US 95 comes right underneath where that bridge was.

00:57:46:09 - 00:57:56:02 Harold Pond: Yeah. Oh I’m still see you. Can you, instead of going over the old curvy Winchester grade, you go right up the canyon now. Yeah. And and that.

00:57:56:04 - 00:58:02:05 Hal Riegger: Was one bridge across the highway. Then you cross another and go right into the tunnel.

00:58:02:08 - 00:58:02:29 Harold Pond: Yeah, yeah.

00:58:03:01 - 00:58:04:17 Hal Riegger: That’s the first of those two.

00:58:04:21 - 00:58:10:16 Harold Pond: No, this is the second one. The first is bridge 19. It’s a big highway okay. That’s a highway.

00:58:10:16 - 00:58:12:24 Hal Riegger: And this would be right at the tunnel entrance.

00:58:12:24 - 00:58:15:10 Harold Pond: That’s right. Right at the turn on entrance. That’s right.

00:58:15:13 - 00:58:20:22 Hal Riegger: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. This would be an interesting one. You know, I could have this here.

00:58:20:22 - 00:58:22:02 Harold Pond: Could have any of those pictures.

00:58:22:02 - 00:58:43:01 Hal Riegger: Of. Well, I’m looking at them in terms of how well they would reproduce. I just wouldn’t. Yeah. And these are interesting. But I don’t think they’ll come through. All right. Yeah. Okay. Pictures are awfully hard to take. Really. Well, this would be fun to keep. no, I’d send these back to you one or. And through them.

00:58:43:03 - 00:58:43:29 Harold Pond: Oh, that’d be fine.

00:58:43:29 - 00:58:45:11 Hal Riegger: Love this one. A here.

00:58:45:13 - 00:58:48:16 Harold Pond: Oh, you have reference. Yeah, sure. You probably do.

00:58:48:19 - 00:58:59:23 Hal Riegger: Yeah. So okay then you keep those two. I’ll keep these two then. Yeah. Because that’s one story. Yeah. Well.

00:59:01:07 - 00:59:23:03 Harold Pond: there’s a funny little story about the at first bridge you go a bridge 19 there. Yeah. When they were building on that bridge there was a contractor doing that, doing that work up there. And they had those great huge steel I-beams out there. And they they were lifting one of them up. Okay. Any kind of damage on his crane when he lifted up.

00:59:23:03 - 00:59:45:13 Harold Pond: But the men work up there at noon and then they evening instead of walking to the end of the bridge and walking down that steep incline and rocky road, they just come down on one of those ropes. Well, one of those workmen didn’t realize how slick that rope was. It had been raining a little bit. So he got Ahold of that rope, started sliding down there.

00:59:45:13 - 01:00:04:00 Harold Pond: And a curse. Yeah. He had gloves on and zip. He just come down there just like a bat out of hell. And when he hit the floor. Hey, bro. Bro. Well, thanks. I mean, when it hit the the road down there, he was a contractor, but he wasn’t a railroader, so. But anyway, it’s kind of.

01:00:04:03 - 01:00:16:26 Hal Riegger: I’ve noticed some photographs. I have, show that it’s a dirt road. And then the others. Of course, it’s, well, good road now paving on, you know, one that was paved, you.

01:00:16:28 - 01:00:23:25 Harold Pond: Know, but you could find that that was not a dirt road up there. There was no road up there.

01:00:23:27 - 01:00:26:15 Hal Riegger: I’ve got a picture that shows that it’s a dirt road.

01:00:26:18 - 01:00:53:16 Harold Pond: No, no, no, no. I worked at Duke yet, which is just right there at milepost 19.5 off and on through a period of three years and that and at one time there was a quite a few of the bread men said to enter the Curly Shack, and they wanted to try to improvise a road coming up there, because at one time they had had a kind of a dirt cow trail up there.

01:00:53:16 - 01:01:17:02 Harold Pond: And in fact, shear, who owns a big mill that but, Elk City now, he started the mill at bridge 17, and he had kind of half way Bulldozer Road in to bridge 17 so he could open that sawmill that they were taking an old steam engine up there to help granite. And it rolled off this improvised road into the creek.

01:01:17:02 - 01:01:23:03 Harold Pond: And it just somebody probably salvaged a scrap of.

01:01:23:05 - 01:01:23:24 Hal Riegger: It from.

01:01:23:24 - 01:01:27:10 Harold Pond: There. But there was there was no road in the new creek.

01:01:27:12 - 01:01:31:19 Hal Riegger: No, I’m talking about the main road. I’m up to Granville.

01:01:31:21 - 01:01:39:23 Harold Pond: Well, you mean through the canyon? Through the cul de sac canyon? There was no gravel road through the cul de sac Canyon. No.

01:01:39:26 - 01:01:45:28 Hal Riegger: No, no, no no no. Study that photograph again. The road that goes under bridge 19 and 20.

01:01:46:01 - 01:01:54:00 Harold Pond: Well, that was when they probably bulldozed road there. And a gravel road at first until they got around the blacktop and it.

01:01:54:03 - 01:01:56:15 Hal Riegger: Well, that’s what I mean. I wonder when that was.

01:01:56:21 - 01:02:09:29 Harold Pond: Oh well the highway department could tell you right at the time there. Yeah. Well, I thought you meant there was an old dirt road going up there for years before.

01:02:10:01 - 01:02:13:28 Hal Riegger: No, this was just a narrow, oh, wider. But it was.

01:02:14:03 - 01:02:17:18 Harold Pond: Oh yeah. Well, that was when they were building the road.

01:02:19:22 - 01:02:26:26 Hal Riegger: And before that, there just wasn’t any road. Yeah. You know how big after Greenville?

01:02:26:28 - 01:02:35:21 Harold Pond: Well, they went over the old Winchester grade. The Winchester grade was a winding grade. And then it went through Winchester and come back over there.

01:02:35:24 - 01:02:39:18 Hal Riegger: Is that does that come out of Clarkston? Oh.

01:02:39:20 - 01:02:42:12 Harold Pond: No. No, it comes out of 36.

01:02:42:14 - 01:02:44:10 Hal Riegger: Oh,

01:02:44:12 - 01:02:45:22 Harold Pond: There was.

01:02:45:25 - 01:02:47:05 Hal Riegger: Yeah. Is that still there?

01:02:47:07 - 01:02:48:08 Harold Pond: But I beg pardon.

01:02:48:14 - 01:02:49:15 Hal Riegger: Is that road still there.

01:02:49:16 - 01:03:02:00 Harold Pond: Oh yeah. That road still there being used to hunt. Yeah. That’s a quite an interesting road. Would be a nice way to go up a kind of a scenic road, but up there in the, I don’t know, about 3 or 4 miles out of your way.

01:03:02:03 - 01:03:10:04 Hal Riegger: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What were some of the interesting experiences you had on your job?

01:03:10:07 - 01:03:30:24 Harold Pond: Well, I was a bridge man for three years, and then I was a vehicle engineer for several years, and then I was promoted to claim major. And then. And then I was chief clerk to the manager. So, I don’t know, maybe you would you to hear about some of the accident occurred on.

01:03:30:24 - 01:03:34:18 Hal Riegger: The things that interested you, particularly?

01:03:34:20 - 01:03:35:13 Harold Pond: Well.

01:03:35:15 - 01:03:37:19 Hal Riegger: You just think of first what.

01:03:37:21 - 01:04:03:10 Harold Pond: One a bridge for men was yellow blue, and they called it Bud one. And it was working on a bridge up on the Sack Hill. There. And he slipped and fell 30, 30 or 35ft, right on his back on frozen ground. The ground was frozen solid. I was originally totally sick at that time. So they called me and they told me they were bringing in blood.

01:04:03:10 - 01:04:27:18 Harold Pond: And I said, okay. And I phoned up and they didn’t know how bad it was hurt. And I said, I’ll have the doctor here and I’ll have the base warm, and I’ll notify Lewiston. And I took care of all the arrangements. And when they brought Bud down, we had a doctor Marsh at College Track, and I had him there, you know, and before they brought Bud down to Kershaw, the river doctor had arrived.

01:04:27:18 - 01:04:46:03 Harold Pond: He cut a sack and Bud came down there and wrapped up. It was cold weather. I had the snow go in there and he was cold. And finally he said, he said, sorry, unwrap me. He said that cold that he didn’t get to tell me. Well, I had him wrapped up in his cold in the heat, wouldn’t get to him.

01:04:46:03 - 01:05:07:09 Harold Pond: So we unwrapped him and then the heat got to it. Well, they took him to the worst. And then, you know, that man had one bone in his wrist broken. And that’s all. He fell 30 or 35ft flat on his back. And he probably put his hands down like that. Yeah. And he had one little bone in his wrist broken and no other damage.

01:05:07:11 - 01:05:10:13 Harold Pond: Can you imagine that? That was.

01:05:10:15 - 01:05:12:28 Hal Riegger: What sort of work was he doing on the bridge?

01:05:13:01 - 01:05:36:25 Harold Pond: Well, bridge. He was a bridge foreman and and working on the bridge. What they were doing at that time, I think he was on a stage in between the camps, right at the deck. And and it was cold and everything was frost them and probably ice on deck. And he I think he was foreman and he probably didn’t have boots on the men that work in the loft, they were cork boots.

01:05:36:27 - 01:05:37:23 Hal Riegger: Cork.

01:05:37:25 - 01:05:55:29 Harold Pond: So cork. Kid was working on it. He was on the train one time, the old logger. They had what they call tin pants and they had these cork boots and kids who what do you call those boots? This bunch of spikes in there. And he said, Cork boots. What do you call those pants? Tin pass kid went over.

01:05:55:29 - 01:06:11:17 Harold Pond: He said, he ain’t kidding me. Tin patch cork boots will actually they are tin fastened cork boots, but I don’t think. But they had cork boots and and I think he was working on stage and right on the caps.

01:06:11:20 - 01:06:16:16 Hal Riegger: What what what what sort of work was being done on that bridge. Oh.

01:06:16:18 - 01:06:40:05 Harold Pond: Well, they’re always working on the bridge they had at that time. They had three bridge crews at all bridges. They they needed all kinds of work. They did the tires replaced. They needed the stringers replaced. They need to post replace and held jobs in line. Gertz and and and and and there were have to work on that time those huge big wood bridges.

01:06:40:05 - 01:06:51:08 Harold Pond: You know the mud blocks at the bottom, they deteriorate and they’ve got to remove them, the shells, intermediate shells, the post right up. You know, a post never rots out except just at the end.

01:06:51:12 - 01:06:52:05 Hal Riegger: Yeah.

01:06:52:07 - 01:06:57:13 Harold Pond: Yeah. So now they’re using treated timber mostly because it’s getting so costly.

01:06:57:15 - 01:06:59:05 Hal Riegger: They kept those posts that.

01:06:59:05 - 01:07:00:07 Harold Pond: All they.

01:07:00:09 - 01:07:03:10 Hal Riegger: Did, they kept them with metal to keep them from rotting.

01:07:03:10 - 01:07:06:24 Harold Pond: No, no. They used creosote timbers.

01:07:06:26 - 01:07:07:16 Hal Riegger: That.

01:07:07:18 - 01:07:10:03 Harold Pond: Those timber the creosote had under pressure.

01:07:10:05 - 01:07:14:25 Hal Riegger: And they didn’t in the early days. No no no no no no.

01:07:14:28 - 01:07:19:20 Harold Pond: We had another bridge, man. I blew it up. He was. Oh, I want.

01:07:19:20 - 01:07:22:09 Hal Riegger: To ask something about blood, not go ahead.

01:07:22:11 - 01:07:48:27 Harold Pond: He was working on the bridge. any. No worries. He started to fall and he knew he was going to fall. He was working up there. Tony Carpenter lied about. I’m sure the bridge he was working on was piling. So he gave himself a big shove to get away so it wouldn’t hit timbers on the way down. Yeah, it happened to be his wife’s birthday, and he said, oh my gosh, what a terrible present for my wife.

01:07:48:29 - 01:08:11:10 Harold Pond: And it just happened so quick. Our feet a creek down there, great big rocks down in there. And he just landed in a pool that broke his fall. Just just by an act of God that man. And and he never got hurt. I don’t think he lost any time so much. And that shows what kind of man Nyberg was.

01:08:11:11 - 01:08:17:08 Harold Pond: He was thinking about the sinking of his wife. His wife. and,

01:08:17:10 - 01:08:21:14 Hal Riegger: Do you know his son? And, do you know his son?

01:08:21:17 - 01:08:33:14 Harold Pond: No, I don’t know. I have seen him. He’s a kind of a red haired boy and pretty husky. But I don’t know anything about his family except his wife and not his wife. For many, many years.

01:08:33:16 - 01:08:56:06 Hal Riegger: I met her the first summer I was up for, and she seemed she was going somewhere. She seemed very busy and and somehow didn’t have time to say hello even. But, yeah, because I understood that he got and I had I have photographs, but she said she didn’t want to to her son. and I tried to reach him.

01:08:56:06 - 01:09:04:00 Hal Riegger: I don’t know how many times I never get a of them. I’ve written them several times. Closed stamp envelopes, and he doesn’t answer, and then.

01:09:04:00 - 01:09:05:27 Harold Pond: I don’t know. We don’t know where he lives.

01:09:05:29 - 01:09:07:11 Hal Riegger: He’s up in Clarkston Heights.

01:09:07:11 - 01:09:14:22 Harold Pond: He I don’t know. Yeah, but anyway, my board had about 17 brothers and sisters.

01:09:14:25 - 01:09:16:18 Hal Riegger: And this is a son.

01:09:16:20 - 01:09:23:12 Harold Pond: I know, but surely some of his brothers and sisters would know we’re there. Who are there? But it was located.

01:09:23:12 - 01:09:25:07 Hal Riegger: You got down this place.

01:09:25:10 - 01:09:26:02 Harold Pond: Oh. You did?

01:09:26:03 - 01:09:44:22 Hal Riegger: Yeah, but they’re never in. I could never find them in I phone, I never got, This was my phone. Oh, and I just wondered if he, you know, he he knows that I would like to see some pictures and I’d like to be able to use them, but, maybe he doesn’t. None of them. Anybody had money?

01:09:44:29 - 01:09:46:19 Hal Riegger: No. No.

01:09:46:21 - 01:09:52:01 Harold Pond: After all, I don’t know anything about, you know, I’ve just seen him watch it twice.

01:09:52:03 - 01:09:57:14 Unknown Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:57:17 - 01:10:04:04 Hal Riegger: Well, okay. Agent, what sort of things normally happened with you?

01:10:04:06 - 01:10:11:17 Harold Pond: Oh. Oh, when I was agent, I was clerk of the school board and cleared to the village and.

01:10:11:19 - 01:10:13:13 Hal Riegger: That was a.

01:10:13:15 - 01:10:37:28 Harold Pond: Scoutmaster. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had a, I had a quite a workshop during the war. I couldn’t get anything done. And people would bring things to me. And of course, I’m doing public relations work for the railroad. I never charged you and saw the the cream cans and fix the barn engines and what have you had one show up there.

01:10:38:01 - 01:11:05:22 Harold Pond: He version of congrats. Oh that’s right. And no charge. No charge. And he there was he had one of these meat grinders, the handle that broke right at the at the. So I reset the, the handle up closer. And I made a better meat grinder out of it because they have two big shrink and I had a shorter swing and a fix, a barn hinge for him.

01:11:05:22 - 01:11:29:24 Harold Pond: And oh my gosh, I fixed the switch on his board and I really wanted another board. And a whole bunch of jobs. But one day the train was coming. In those days we shipped quite a bit of cream and I ran and grabbed all these cream candidates, started, put it up on a truck, one cream cash slipped out of my hand, tipped over, and I immediately grabbed it and put her back up there and cash flow of cream spilled out.

01:11:29:24 - 01:11:53:04 Harold Pond: So I waited, and in the rush I thought that this cream belonged to somebody else. A man named burbot. So I wrote him a letter and I told him I had spilled 2 pounds of cream, of maybe 4 pounds. I forget, the pamphlet name call, maybe the surviving ship and it cream that day. So then I could tell her there was another man.

01:11:53:10 - 01:12:18:05 Harold Pond: So I called him and he said, well, I’ll be down there. I was going to get the cream van or something. He came down and I said, well, Jim, what are you? And he said, oh, he said, about $0.50. And I had a dollar in my pocket. I handed him that and he said, I’m going to change. I said, I got some say, $0.50 went wrong.

01:12:18:05 - 01:12:38:12 Harold Pond: He called me and wanted me to do another job for him. Yes, I said, very gosh, Jim, there’s a place down most and they take care of it. Oh, he said, I’ll bring it down. I said, no, I said they could talk with me. He finally go through six go of that last job I could do for

01:12:38:14 - 01:12:46:01 Hal Riegger: That’s interesting. You’re the first person that’s mentioned, cream or milk is, something the railroad carried.

01:12:46:06 - 01:13:12:14 Harold Pond: Oh, we ship lots of cream. You know, we used to ship with a five gallon cans of cream from Granger or colleagues say, and they put it on the train. And then if it’s warm weather, the baggage man would put ice on top of that cream, you know? Yeah. There was legitimate good ice down there. They’d take it to Portland and, and, I don’t know what they delivered it to the creamery or to Portland or Seattle or Spokane.

01:13:12:18 - 01:13:41:15 Harold Pond: Yeah, $0.36. And then the came can would come back and they’d only charge $0.36 for a can of cream to go or come in back. And I said if it was necessary. And then the, then the agent, the agent got 10% commission. So he got three and 6/10 cents to ship that there. Well there was one. There’s one station a little station up here.

01:13:41:15 - 01:14:01:10 Harold Pond: Ferdinand, Idaho. Yeah. And they and the agent made about ten, 12, $15 a month cream commission. So with that, all that was a choice job because of the cream commission, because in those days we elevated about $0.70 an hour. So an extra ten bucks a month was velvet.

01:14:01:13 - 01:14:04:01 Hal Riegger: Well, what used with those V.

01:14:04:04 - 01:14:11:02 Harold Pond: Well, all the time that the the passenger trains were running Ukraine. You have to wonder the passenger train.

01:14:11:02 - 01:14:12:09 Hal Riegger: Does this bother you.

01:14:12:11 - 01:14:21:09 Harold Pond: No, no. Okay. So. We had have to find out when the passenger trains were discontinued on the chemist prior. Really?

01:14:21:10 - 01:14:23:00 Hal Riegger: That was what, the early 50%.

01:14:23:00 - 01:14:23:14 Harold Pond: Yeah.

01:14:24:24 - 01:14:26:29 Hal Riegger: up until that time, we were carrying cream.

01:14:26:29 - 01:14:52:26 Harold Pond: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, the agent on the canvas Prairie Railroad? He was. We were we were agents from the Union for the Union Pacific. Just. Oh, we had an agency for the Union Pacific, which we rendered separate reports for the U.P. we rendered separate reports for the Northern Pacific. We rendered separate reports for the Camas Prairie, separate reports for the Western Union and the Railway Express.

01:14:52:26 - 01:15:13:16 Harold Pond: We had five accounts. And at the end of the month you had, you had to close all these accounts and you had all the monthly reports and each each end of the month, you had work like the devil to get them all consolidated and all balanced out and certain the men. Right. And they want everybody wanted. There’s on time.

01:15:13:18 - 01:15:19:05 Harold Pond: They acted like their report was the only one. What was.

01:15:19:07 - 01:15:29:25 Hal Riegger: Now did the these, people who shipped melt, were they like some of the other customers, could they say whether they wanted to go to PNP or, you.

01:15:29:27 - 01:15:35:15 Harold Pond: Know, or they didn’t. They didn’t on the cream. We just voted up on the cream. And I suppose.

01:15:35:17 - 01:15:38:14 Hal Riegger: Who got the money from that then which ran.

01:15:38:17 - 01:15:57:18 Harold Pond: At all cameras? Prairie. We if it was going to Spokane, we shifted on an NPR radio favorite is going to Portland or Seattle. We ship it on the Union Pacific Plate. We’re just going to work with ship it on a committee. We go, And those are the way bills were just for a separate wages. But that did.

01:15:57:21 - 01:16:07:00 Hal Riegger: Yeah. Yeah, there was what are the commodities other than the grain and the lumber and the cream. What other things did you handle?

01:16:07:02 - 01:16:07:19 Harold Pond: Well, we’re.

01:16:07:20 - 01:16:08:07 Hal Riegger: Doing this and.

01:16:08:08 - 01:16:11:09 Harold Pond: This cream cream always went on a passenger train.

01:16:11:10 - 01:16:12:00 Hal Riegger: Right.

01:16:12:02 - 01:16:16:03 Harold Pond: And and a lot of times the stock that we loaded went on the passenger train.

01:16:16:03 - 01:16:16:22 Hal Riegger: Stock or.

01:16:16:23 - 01:16:47:07 Harold Pond: Stock. Yeah. Now, at Coney Shack, I they would have what to call hog. They it would be definitely one one Saturday a month. But lots of times said they didn’t have enough hogs there and they’d shipped two, two cars a month and maybe they’d need enough and they’d have kept two cars. So the passenger train would roll in there and back up and take the home, get Ahold of that stock car and take it to most from on promotion.

01:16:47:07 - 01:17:05:02 Harold Pond: I didn’t know we’re clean. Yeah, but we always endeavor to get what they call a 36 hour release release and 36 hour release. And that permitted the railroad company to keep that stock in the car for 36 hours. I paid and rest and the cut.

01:17:05:06 - 01:17:06:27 Hal Riegger: The railroad had to feed.

01:17:07:00 - 01:17:40:12 Harold Pond: That feed on the way. Yeah, yeah, but it was kind of funny. One day they grabbed hold of the stock car with hogs at 32nd on the passenger train. In the passenger train used to make some pretty fast time from Cody Shack to mercy because it was level of good track. They were rattling down there by Jack fur, which is halfway between police action that way and and the the brakeman he stepped out on the on the step and he looked back there to check, make sure that the car was everything all right.

01:17:40:13 - 01:18:02:01 Harold Pond: And somebody had seen that car, but they hadn’t seen through the last latch. Well, going down there, that door opened, it rattled open, and he looked out there just as one of these head of. Yeah. So hogs rolled out of the car. They were going down there about 60 miles an hour, and that hog fell on his back out there in the rocks.

01:18:02:01 - 01:18:35:27 Harold Pond: And you know, they stopped the train and shut that thing latch. But I called it they sent me a message from that place. So I called the shipper, and he went down there and he found that he found that hog and it wouldn’t hurt a bit. It wouldn’t hurt a bit. That’s amazing. But, you know, you know, if you can’t imagine how tough I guess I was riding a motorcycle one time and I run into one just in the, you know, the the crash bars go out like that to keep your brake and leg.

01:18:35:29 - 01:18:51:06 Harold Pond: Well, I hit this hog. I wasn’t going professional. It was just like, hit the rock. Yeah, just like hit the rock. They just tipped me over like that and upset. And I just really hit a rock. It. Can you imagine a house being so.

01:18:51:09 - 01:18:53:22 Hal Riegger: Well they’re solid. Yeah, yeah.

01:18:53:24 - 01:19:15:24 Harold Pond: There was another funny story about a half. This has really no connection with the railroad except the ex Otter tour chief Clark. Joe Craig told this story to me. The old Curly Shack grade right above Kelly Shack. There was a sharp curve around there, and there was there was a lift right there. And they had alfalfa.

01:19:15:26 - 01:19:16:14 Hal Riegger: Yeah.

01:19:16:17 - 01:19:38:04 Harold Pond: He was going up there with a and low model T Ford. They were going to their first. And and a hog just popped out of that alfalfa field and they checked it with the, the ticket with the model T Ford. He didn’t hurt didn’t hurt the hog arm. They got up the next first of the can. Lawrence McCabe.

01:19:38:04 - 01:19:58:07 Harold Pond: His family is big rich farmers around here. Had a little boy about six years old. And Joe was telling this little boy, he said, we saw that hog coming out of the alfalfa. And he said, we hit it. And he said, well, then when I was looking back, I saw the alfalfa coming out of the hub. This little kid is looking like that.

01:19:58:07 - 01:20:15:08 Harold Pond: And pretty soon he started laughing and he grinned. Joe said, all evening long he look over there, and then he started grinning. That was kind of funny. You. First you saw the pig coming out of the alfalfa and looked back, and he saw the alfalfa coming down. The pig? Yeah, yeah.

01:20:15:11 - 01:20:19:09 Hal Riegger: Re involved it all, within this first railroad, you.

01:20:19:11 - 01:20:26:05 Harold Pond: Know, the age that Craig was. So he made the interchange just the age of a quick buck.

01:20:26:07 - 01:20:30:17 Hal Riegger: What’s happening with that right now? Do you know?

01:20:30:19 - 01:20:35:02 Harold Pond: I think they’re just storing boxcars for. Those are gone. Oh.

01:20:35:02 - 01:20:37:17 Hal Riegger: Are they? Yeah, they’re. Hold on.

01:20:37:20 - 01:20:46:05 Harold Pond: I don’t know what’s going on right now, but you could find out by even making a call up there, or you’ll be up that way. It won’t. You. Sure.

01:20:46:05 - 01:20:48:14 Hal Riegger: We’ll go up Saturday and see firemen.

01:20:48:15 - 01:21:01:29 Harold Pond: Say there’s some history in the cameras forever. What about that railroad? Did you hear that? That was built by a Johnson railroad who started from this first built Craig, Mont. And he also started from Lewiston. And he built up the Tammany.

01:21:02:02 - 01:21:03:19 Hal Riegger: Yeah, but he didn’t go very far.

01:21:03:24 - 01:21:12:09 Harold Pond: Well, he went up to, we went up that road down family when I was a kid. That old trestle was still in there. Yeah.

01:21:12:11 - 01:21:29:14 Hal Riegger: Oh, an interesting thing is a very good friend of mine that I’ve known since Warriors. His name is is Hjalmar Johnson. Johnson started. The Nez Perce is his grandfather. Oh. Is that he lives down about 28 miles from me, down in California.

01:21:29:14 - 01:21:34:12 Harold Pond: He does it down. Interesting. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I know.

01:21:34:12 - 01:21:41:25 Hal Riegger: Some of this person. I’d like to find out more. I’d like to get a hold of. Joe likes Buck Griffin. It’s hard to catch.

01:21:41:27 - 01:21:43:02 Harold Pond: He is hard to catch.

01:21:43:25 - 01:21:57:02 Hal Riegger: yeah. yeah. I just wondered if you knew anything about it. That’s what else you said. You you were. You’re originally being me, and then you were Agent. And then there were Chief Parks, and.

01:21:57:04 - 01:21:58:23 Harold Pond: Then I was claymation.

01:21:58:26 - 01:22:05:11 Hal Riegger: Playmate. Yep. And the sort of strange, interesting claims that you’d get.

01:22:05:14 - 01:22:11:06 Harold Pond: Well, quite a few were there. One.

01:22:11:08 - 01:22:17:06 Harold Pond: At that time I had at when this occurred, I had just been promoted to chief clerk to the manager.

01:22:17:12 - 01:22:18:22 Hal Riegger: When one more that occurred.

01:22:19:09 - 01:22:46:22 Harold Pond: the story on oh, about that, the agent, I guess the claim agent that had succeeded me was out of town. So the claim agent from the Northern Pacific came down to Spokane, and I went up to our union and help you. But what had happened there? Was it there was an empty logging train going out of our final.

01:22:46:24 - 01:23:14:14 Harold Pond: And, there they were. Oh, the empty, empty gondolas. And there was a kid there. He would he go through one of those gondolas and each step up from the gondola box, you know, at the end. But that height had little lift there about that, right? You know, you stand there and he’d hop over to the next. And while the train was moving, I would do that for me.

01:23:14:16 - 01:23:40:27 Harold Pond: Well, the first thing he did, he swept and fell and the train ran over his leg right there. And we rushed him the hospital immediately. And he’s he’s still alive then he’s still around here and he’s because I don’t think he can even use it for patients coming in for the man is out there. And that.

01:23:41:00 - 01:23:42:03 Hal Riegger: Was a claim against.

01:23:42:09 - 01:24:00:27 Harold Pond: Him. Well, you know, I was I was, chief clerk to the manager when that occurred. And what kind of a settlement you ever made with him? I don’t know, I reckon with the railroad wasn’t his fault. No, they don’t want anybody even on those trains. I don’t I don’t know if they ever moved.

01:24:01:04 - 01:24:12:18 Hal Riegger: I’m curious about how things like that might turn up, because of course, it’s absolutely illegal to be on those trains. you know. Yeah. Somebody gets to or home.

01:24:12:21 - 01:24:21:14 Harold Pond: Of course, there’s more lawyers now. The lawyers are always looking for a hand over they don’t pursue those things.

01:24:21:16 - 01:24:28:20 Hal Riegger: Yeah, well, let’s see if you get any funny claims that were.

01:24:28:23 - 01:24:41:11 Harold Pond: Yeah, well, I had one that. That’s kind of funny. This occurred in February or March of when, I don’t remember the year, the terms of five years.

01:24:41:14 - 01:24:42:02 Hal Riegger: You know, is.

01:24:42:03 - 01:25:05:08 Harold Pond: It been raining? And there was a couple days there. They told me there was a fire, of course, but our female grass fire. And I said, there can’t be grass fire this time of year. Yes there is. So I went up there and I guess this little bit of grass is shovel grass. The year before, it kind of burned along there up in the hillside there.

01:25:05:12 - 01:25:31:05 Harold Pond: Good doing damage. And I went up there and surveyed it. Talk to two of the farmers who owned a farmer. Had a big claim for the damn heat, And I told him, I said, why? I said, railroad company and the farmers are neighbors. And, I said, if we can help neighbors at any time we expect to do.

01:25:31:05 - 01:25:57:06 Harold Pond: And, Mr. Farmer, the journey, the railroad can help them. We always expect a little help from them. I said, for instance, when we remove tires from the tracks, they order, the section foreman has orders to deliver those ties to the adjacent farmer if he wants them right before they give them to anybody else. And then I say, this is an exorbitant claim, but there was no damage done.

01:25:57:06 - 01:26:18:24 Harold Pond: And I said, if you want to figure out a claim this fair, I’ll entertain it. But I said, I’m just going to turn this down. That’s not. And, you know, I never heard another word from me. Didn’t even, you know, you didn’t even get a claim for what little damage you might have been, why they suffered watching it, which were really dumb.

01:26:18:26 - 01:26:24:26 Harold Pond: But some of these fellows, I think they just think, well, they put in a big claim. Railroad company. She got lots of money here, Pat.

01:26:24:27 - 01:26:26:01 Hal Riegger: Yeah, sure.

01:26:26:03 - 01:26:57:07 Harold Pond: Every. You, I had one, and while I was claiming a friend of mine, a young fella had slipped out of a bridge and a servant, he fell like this. And. Oh, yeah, didn’t fall very far. It took him to. Yeah. You know this young man. So. No, thank you. You keep that. This young man still lives at our feet.

01:26:57:08 - 01:27:23:16 Harold Pond: Are you the young man or. I took him to the hospital at our senior. I kept him there for a while. I found he had two broken ribs. So they released him to go to to, Missoula, the Northern Pacific hospital. It was a rumor. So we hired a private plane to take him up there, and I was going to go along with him.

01:27:23:19 - 01:27:43:09 Harold Pond: So we got on the plane that day like this, and we we just got a few miles out of the mountains there, and the fog was coming here. I told this pilot, I said, my gosh, man, you going over that mountain down there with all this fog? And he says, well, it didn’t clear up pretty soon. And then he said, smoking in there pretty much.

01:27:43:09 - 01:28:02:17 Harold Pond: I mean, he got his chicken as I got it turned around, came back. Well, a couple of days later it cleared up and we sent him over there. And when they got over there, they found out he had two broken ankles. Also, what? They let him walk out of the hospital in our fino. The poor guy was he?

01:28:02:20 - 01:28:18:23 Harold Pond: He was was in pain in the head. Two broken arm. They let him walk out there, two broken ankles. Can you imagine that? Can. Is named Wayne Simpson. He was or you know.

01:28:18:25 - 01:28:24:10 Hal Riegger: So as as.

01:28:24:13 - 01:28:32:24 Hal Riegger: I don’t want to say this, claim as claim agent. You were really busy all the time with claims.

01:28:32:24 - 01:29:00:02 Harold Pond: Well, yeah. Well, no, not always with claim, but the claim on the cameras per railroad, he was station supervisor, you know, and, and he was supply aged and, he was claim agent, you know, and, and in the meantime, he did anything else with management for me. Okay. For instance, one time we had a fire up above, probably shack, and there was quite a big fire at the bank.

01:29:00:02 - 01:29:23:17 Harold Pond: That supervisor and the assistant maintenance supervisor was on it, and then it quelled their on. They got it quelled in about two days later it broke loose again up there. Another one broke loose again. We had a terrible hot, hot winter. I mean hot summer. Yeah. And the steam, because there was it was that was a statement those days that was too long to go.

01:29:23:19 - 01:29:27:12 Harold Pond: It was basically dry. Then. So.

01:29:27:14 - 01:29:29:14 Hal Riegger: So the,

01:29:29:16 - 01:29:54:29 Harold Pond: The assistant supervisor made the supervisor was laid up. I guess they’d been working day and night up there on that other fire. So I just thought firefighting took him up there. And during that other fire, I had bitten, I’d been delivering train crews back and forth between here and and so that’s just another thing they used. They used the claim agent for other duties.

01:29:54:29 - 01:30:18:13 Harold Pond: They got a wreck down there. They picked you say bring your camera down. We want a picture of this. And, it was we were busy most of the time. Yeah. And and then of course, we had to take care of the, we had a big file of tariffs, big fight of tariffs and those tariffs, a steady stream of supplements came in.

01:30:18:16 - 01:30:46:06 Harold Pond: You had to have these supplements also take you guys about every six months apparent road sent in sent in an inspector to inspect your father tariffs. And if you didn’t have the latest supplements filed by you got a letter of recommendation? and there was just another one of condition. Then Camis brewery claim agent had to issue the tariffs and a change of tariffs on the chemist.