Jess Taylor and Dorothy Taylor Interview #4, 08/09/1972 [transcript]

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;39;03 Speaker 1 Jess Taylor And this tape is about to describe some of the particular parts of the memorabilia collection about which had been in conversation with the University of Idaho and with which this study is concerned. The first group of papers are things left over from the effects of Mr. Cougar, Dave Lewis, the Idaho Summer Sun States. Now, the sound of the tape 1930 shows the boundaries of the proposed primitive area.

00;00;39;05 - 00;01;18;07 Speaker 1 Those are pretty close to the present boundaries, too, aren’t they? Well, that’s exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, this the monument I told you. Bar and here, Governor Ball. Right. And you’re Dave Grohl and there’s Mark. Three of these dogs as he. One of those dogs stayed with you after that. But I don’t think that. And then this picture, it evidently went by the board, but this one that he called own Whiskers, it was their wedding one when I came along and I think there’s a Rutledge here.

00;01;20;21 - 00;01;49;17 Speaker 1 yeah. See, the monument was put up there about when you remember. Well, I have the date someplace, but I don’t remember. Yeah, it probably tells somewhere, you know, in this battle exactly when it was put up there. But Mike Wallace was a ranger at that time down there. And that that was pretty early in the in time in relation to the time it was declared discriminatory.

00;01;49;24 - 00;02;20;28 Speaker 1 Now, this these people, including the governor, would have gotten in there and this occasion had one foot horseback, horseback packed crane from the creek ground. Yeah, I’ve got one here that it shows the whole group that were in there on this parade. That’s the was this picture with the monument that you were just talking about. Is that picture probably taken when they were in there on the survey that I’m sure it long because Governor Baldridge wrote in there at that time.

00;02;21;05 - 00;02;47;19 Speaker 1 Yeah. I notice here, he said it was about the wildest country he had ever seen. Yeah, Governor Baldridge did. Yeah, that was three years before 1930. So it would have been in 1926 or 27. You were in there? Well, that’s about one, I would think. Yeah, because the survey was made naturally sometime prior to the time was designated right.

00;02;47;22 - 00;03;05;12 Speaker 1 And was designated by the legislature of the state of Idaho and approved by the Forestry and the Forest Service was designated to administer the area. I don’t there’s not some bearing on it somewhere, but I couldn’t say just for.

00;03;05;20 - 00;03;50;01 Speaker 1 here you just want. And the Idaho National Forest? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And she’d go there. I’d there over here and we would go. Picture of Mr. Lewis here, you know, an 83, your own guy. This is the Nashville, Tennessee paper, November 27, 19 1927. This hunter, no doubt was very much interested in the granite area and in the game and and such in there.

00;03;50;01 - 00;04;42;21 Speaker 1 And for several years he conducted the ah, back to Cougar Derby. You mean this particular one? Yeah. And she was the one that I have. Mind. I’m going. These to. Who’s Georgie Branton? Elmer DAVIES. No, no, not one of them. That show in one of these other. You don’t here. All right. Yeah. Was one here Coolidge There.

00;04;42;26 - 00;05;22;24 Speaker 1 Get in there today. Are going in Portland, April 17, 1927. All right, I’ll get an invitation to the show. Worth it? Something to do with this? Apparently. Harry Shuttleworth, who was in on the survey, he was interested in the whole situation from start to finish, and he’s. He’s still alive and mighty. What was his occupation in, or how did he happened To be interested.

00;05;22;25 - 00;05;57;11 Speaker 1 Very involved in it at that time. I forget just, just what he was doing, but at the time that I talked to him, he was retired. Yeah. He was a chairman of this committee on the gorge. Primitive area down here. This is Dave Lawson here, though, whiskers. And then there’s another dog back there. And this is likely Wallace And, and this lady here, I can’t call her name.

00;05;57;11 - 00;06;21;26 Speaker 1 It wasn’t Blackie wife, but she was mentioned in the article all the way through. She moved right, Dave And all the time. And Blackie Walsh was, he was, I think, the first Ranger. Yeah. For service. And then down of them came in, and, he was in there doing practically all of the trail building stage. A lot of it.

00;06;21;29 - 00;06;49;21 Speaker 1 He was the one you dealt with when you gave him the easement to run the trail? No, no, He had been replaced. yeah. interesting pictures of Mr. Lewis. He looks like a wiry fellow. Disney, you know, a little Welshman. Yeah. No children running big quick there. Maybe there’s a notation on there. And that was this.

00;06;49;21 - 00;07;11;16 Speaker 1 Was this The Ford reported it near the ranch there. I have an idea. Yeah. Before he had the bridge, you know, your original bridge was just a foot bridge, not a horse bridge area. Just a a cable bridge. Just it would break for people who want to have, you know, going over in a cable car. No, no, it.

00;07;11;23 - 00;07;43;04 Speaker 1 It was at a water. Yeah. Somewhere. This will come to life with a in a lot of the pictures here and I know it is, but as these pictures were displayed and projected as they should be, then we could put the caption under each one. Well, I tried, you know, to to designate those are all taken in at the ranch.

00;07;43;05 - 00;08;24;25 Speaker 1 The ones you just went through there with the. Yeah. Yeah. Show the monument now. Yeah. In another one or two in there And this probably take night right there on the ranch. So actually when the survey party went in there that the was the Lewis Ranch then was kind of their headquarters. And I’ve got one big picture here that shows the the whole prairie, it all come to light here someplace.

00;08;24;28 - 00;09;01;16 Speaker 1 Now this I think this is the, Yeah, the New York Times tabloid, The New York Times and to to 27, which is Coolidge. There. And I can do better than that. You know, Governor Baldridge, you know, originally the hunting party. Famous Cougar Hunter, the worst uncle there was the 83 and 600 cougars, to his credit. Yeah.

00;09;01;18 - 00;10;00;16 Speaker 1 And this is from The New York Times in November 13, 1927, kids? Kissinger Certainly much too important to take chances with. Well, as is other I think there’s more about this on the in the situation no I guess not and pretty carefully there for the old it kind of frenzied skirt one of the reasons that they need to be you know carefully preserved the right way I can give me one big picture that shows a whole group that is in there on the survey, and I know a good share of I’m not very good there.

00;10;00;16 - 00;10;40;09 Speaker 1 It’s, just taken at the ranch. I doubt it. Didn’t look like it. No wrong kind of terrain there is never going to be on camp here. Yeah. Lewis there on the of the original maps of the time that she paid her campaign. and the whole history down here. you know, we’ve got the original that.

00;10;40;12 - 00;11;13;20 Speaker 1 This is the one that Lieutenant Brown made. And you know, there’s a rather poor reproduction edition. That little booklet about the sheepherder campaign. Well, not nearly as good as it. Yeah, Yeah. Like, get to the right can be. Yeah. Is it a pretty accurate map? They say right to this day it is just right on the was evidently really no is mapping because it was the south fork up creek almost perfect was the present day man’s ranch.

00;11;13;26 - 00;11;50;12 Speaker 1 I’ll be darned. I know some of the names have changed since then. Everything because Papoose Creek wasn’t named it after the after the campaign and I didn’t get named because, well, it was probably named during the campaign or shortly thereafter. And Vinegar Hill and. Yeah, here you got Vinegar Hill marked here. really? So we used to wonder when he actually made the map, you know.

00;11;50;15 - 00;12;24;10 Speaker 1 Well it was on the first quarry in their opinion. So they made I think it was three expedition before they were to get it over with. You know, So this is the original. This about the same size as this? Bigger? Yes, it’s a little bit smaller. I mean, it’s it’s on the white black in the draft there.

00;12;24;12 - 00;12;55;17 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s they gave the original over to, to Mr. Lewis I presume so because when, when he left that spring. Why he, he rolled off his own case. I don’t come back. I think he had a premonition like they were going to. Why that everything in that trunk is yours. This old guy didn’t come, you know, all around.

00;12;55;17 - 00;13;16;22 Speaker 1 Bingo. Yeah, it’s up in the attic. Yeah. Yeah, That was a time you tried not to find resources for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was too early in the spring. I didn’t wanna see him take off, but then they came in. There’s nothing I could do about it. This is back when it was still a territory in the Idaho territory.

00;13;16;22 - 00;13;47;01 Speaker 1 You that in the original or certainly well worth a lot of trouble to preserve because. Well, we they bring it up there in the dresser drawer. I know where they got the stuff on. We don’t know about that and Right. Yeah. The whole history right here. Yeah. I was reading all those notations there, you know, the dates and the chronology of exactly what went on and where it went on and all about it.

00;13;47;04 - 00;14;27;29 Speaker 1 Yeah. And it was certainly a geographic campaign. They moved from place to place. It was where they stayed in one place. No, no, no. They were. Whatever happened to the lieutenant to get court martialed? Did he get busted out of the service or does anybody know what did become of it? And there was a booklet on the sheet beta campaign, and it had to do with that lieutenant that was court martialed and, and the whole situation in their shell, was going to give me that booklet.

00;14;28;02 - 00;14;49;13 Speaker 1 And he looked through everything and he said, You know, I’ve loaned that to somebody and I can’t remember who and I just can’t find it, or I would have had that. And it gave the whole proceeding. Well, there’s a little one that published. I think I can get you a copy of that, you know, and get a copy because I’ve got one of I can’t find another one.

00;14;49;13 - 00;15;06;16 Speaker 1 You can have mine. It would probably not too many years ago. It’s probably not the one Mr. Show was just talking about, but it’s a little pamphlet about a quarter of an inch thick, about five by seven, five, eight inches. It has a bunch of stuff in it. Besides the campaign. It has material about that picture within it.

00;15;06;16 - 00;15;36;02 Speaker 1 FERRO And yeah, know and then there’s some other stuff from Idaho County, mostly stuff from Valley County to if I can’t find your copy, then I’ll give you mine. Well, you’d be interested in that. We would return it to you all. They don’t think there’s quite a few of the artifacts over there. Yeah, well, this is it. These things don’t really down from here on down now to the is.

00;15;36;02 - 00;16;05;23 Speaker 1 No, that’s it. Depend on mining, Glen There I am. There’s the page and the climate, and there were all of that. I wrote Planetary Report. that. This is the report that was made for the study by the committee that Mr. Showers was the Chairman. Yeah, well, I think it’s that’s for the game in the fish.

00;16;05;25 - 00;16;34;23 Speaker 1 See their data on this one? Yeah. It must be the one. You ever see the report that the Sierra Club made. No. Yes. I think I have it someplace. Yeah, I haven’t. I don’t know exactly where, but it’s an and they gave us very good writing that they gave you a perfect grade. Yeah. I read we hadn’t discovered the natural surroundings or any rain on it.

00;16;34;23 - 00;16;51;19 Speaker 1 Only one and the whole thing. You got one of them. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. That’s a real nice things to say about. But in fact, yes, I have the report. The time they read the report, they were worried that you might sell the ranch and they weren’t sure what was going to happen to it, you know. Well, this is it.

00;16;51;25 - 00;17;33;15 Speaker 1 It’s. It’s probably in here. I have the Sierra Report, this very report here. It was 1931, and it’s shown by Richard Rutledge, the regional forester and Hawaii. Stuart. The forester was Stuart and somebody from in that way, or was Stuart just a forester on the staff of probably. Mr. Rutledge Yeah. And Scribner was a supervisor of the, maybe the Payette Yeah.

00;17;33;17 - 00;18;29;23 Speaker 1 Here’s one September 12, 1910 this is an interesting piece of the document. And it sure is. And it’s signed by McCall, which makes it even more interesting because it can be ten or 12, 1910 that certifies that I give David Lewis permission to occupy the disappointment Ranger station for the winter and spring months for trapping. If See McCall were an assistant Ranger in hopes outside the cottonwood cabin for the same time and for trapping Deputy McCall is 62 years old.

00;18;29;23 - 00;19;30;00 Speaker 1 This piece of paper is amazed. Yeah. Here’s one year that to this week. And I don’t know whether we wrote this up for the typewritten sheets. How many of this have you know on the Dorothy M Taylor Yeah certainly I McCall I don’t know I this is a it’s written up in the notations on that map. And then also what they told us in regard to the Yeah this is he was so he was a scout right.

00;19;30;00 - 00;19;50;24 Speaker 1 Long without regard to the factory the ammunition crane What did he think about the way the whole thing was handled. Well, it hadn’t been my doubt after being at Vicksburg and, you know, Bighorn. Yeah, he didn’t. He didn’t want to go down near the bottom again. Canyon. There was a set up for ambush. You want them take the ridges, right?

00;19;50;24 - 00;20;19;29 Speaker 1 It could always. And of course they walk right. That ambush and, and that’s where we got Vinegar Hill and all that. You see, they retreated to this hill and and got back in water up there. And they they had a couple of armed soldiers with them. And so they had drinking vinegar. They had vinegar and vinegar if they had to be something to get through Vicksburg and Little Bighorn and all the things, Nancy, it can be like a cheap, bitter thing at it.

00;20;20;00 - 00;20;37;28 Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think yeah, I think he was bandage American, too. But I, I, I just don’t connect in there. I should have written it all down, you know, because it took me by the hour. You tell me all of these things. So you just kind of made notes. All right, about now. Just what I just what I remember here.

00;20;37;28 - 00;21;01;01 Speaker 1 Well, you’re doing real well, but. So you should have had a recorder like this, see? So you could keep track of what he tells you. And I would keep track of it. You don’t have it in 1935. There’s a little tough in here. But this is this is not something to pass over lightly on here because somebody did a lot of work on this.

00;21;01;04 - 00;21;28;02 Speaker 1 We were having a discussion here that day and it was Mrs. Taylor, whose name was Dorothy with two to on here. And I’ve seen it with an old and an aide, which is correct. You are by now the or within. okay. I thought the second one was me. All right. I know a couple other people thought Dorothy with an A and I would, you know.

00;21;28;04 - 00;22;04;29 Speaker 1 Yeah, well, I’ve got the original. It’s up there or over the top of that map. Yeah, but this is. Yeah, this is important to. We’ve got that one big picture and it’s around that showed the whole group. That were in there on when they surveyed this area. They were, they were, they were really quite a group of origin.

00;22;05;02 - 00;22;34;26 Speaker 1 Harry Shower and Rutledge. Was that pretty much the same group that was on this committee that put together this report with Easton and Shepherd and Thomas and then version and I imagine this prisoner and yeah, of course, yeah. Rich Scribner Yeah. You know, Mitchell and, and Culver and Anderson was who, who was actually the Guiding Light who started this, this idea of the primitive area.

00;22;34;28 - 00;23;00;16 Speaker 1 Well, I think she was, I think Harry Schoenberg, you know, one of the main instigators and followed it right through. Yeah. How do you get the other people interested? Well, I wouldn’t know. North. You might know a little more of his background, you know, as they just why his interest in the situation. Is it him?

00;23;00;18 - 00;23;34;05 Speaker 1 But he was one of Dave Lewis’s administrators. And, and by the name of Vander was another one. And I think that possibly the Ranger was another one. No. Wally stepped down, and there were three administrators. Yeah. Yeah. And they stepped the one that brought the paper down. But Beneath the Tramp that got, you know, on the way out, you know, you see, virtually nobody went to the penitentiary for that, didn’t they?

00;23;34;09 - 00;24;01;06 Speaker 1 Were you? How long was the end? I don’t think I know that. Dylan, he was evidently dying of cancer, so they just let him out? Yeah. And this was mostly state land at the time that the primitive. That is when they first began to look at it. I don’t know that it had been included in the National Forest at that time.

00;24;04;19 - 00;25;13;04 Speaker 1 but it must have been about that time because the U.S. Forest Service was designated to administrating this in this situation. And what action did they take at this meeting then? This one in December 1930 to resolution. Jim. Then. Then they had another meeting later to to pass some resolutions, because in this one looks as though they discussed it and decided what they wanted to do when they actually do it is another one that’s been more of a document than this one.

00;25;13;06 - 00;25;56;29 Speaker 1 This the final situation where in the past there was a debt designated as the administrator and, you know, the boundaries were established and and those things were all brought out. And it’s it’s here and it’s one of these. Gosh, yeah. Well, that’s getting to some interesting stuff here. This is Forest Service report itself. Is it too good to pretty detail, Miss Mr. Lewis here with 64.84 acres and it doesn’t tell about the number of corners it took to do it.

00;25;57;02 - 00;26;36;15 Speaker 1 It aken Highland stone breaker route as to where was this Tip’s place. It was it he was up on. They were doing orange was primary. He owned that at one time, Yeah. Yeah. And Elliott and Bellingham neighborhood they and Gordon Elliott, they, they were owners Bellingham and Abel and those were owners at one time or another. Of those two or three parcels of land.

00;26;38;04 - 00;27;04;02 Speaker 1 Gavin Creek. four LAMB and Bellingham with the upper portion of it. And I know we went, when we went into that country. Why, in, 47, 48? Why? there’s Bellingham on the upper portion of it. And as well, it’s on the lower portion. Which one of these was was Vine some places.

00;27;04;02 - 00;27;27;03 Speaker 1 Finally, John Vines is. Well, it’s, it’s about half. It’s about halfway between the Moore Ranch and the cabin grapevine on the opposite side. A big trail. Yeah, I know where it is. I was wondering which one of these owners would have had that one. Well, it was known as the Mabo Bacon. The Conyers Ranch Garden Garden. Right.

00;27;27;03 - 00;27;55;24 Speaker 1 That’s what. Yeah. Garden. Yeah, it is. 160 acres near several hundred and 60 acre. Yeah. Well, it was known as the garden. Right by the name of Garden. Arthur. You, you know. Yeah. When I actually this was just a few years before you bought the ranch from Mr. Lewis when they made this survey, you know? Yeah.

00;27;55;27 - 00;28;29;02 Speaker 1 Who? 1931. Yeah. For your boy. These things have got to be preserved. You got some awfully things. Stuff here. More? Yeah. This thing you wrote up on it, she put her thing out to be, you know, publisher printed someplace to, you know, in there. Well, it in here. They told me that. No, though she did, they never hurt or killed anybody.

00;28;29;02 - 00;28;52;21 Speaker 1 They were peaceful and they’d work in the mine. They’d do about anything. They were not more like a bottom, but these renegades, these white renegades that get in among them. And then they wanted a piece of property or something or something to gain. Why they they do the killing. Then the Indian got the blame that they never killed anybody, burned any haystacks or anything else.

00;28;53;24 - 00;29;15;20 Speaker 1 But that gives a, give the army an excuse to move in with the army. Finally do with them after they have their own people who might take them from that Umatilla. And then they eventually landed up here at Fort Hall. they stayed there. I mean, yeah, I guess they’re their still right there on all reservation.

00;29;16;19 - 00;29;49;01 Speaker 1 Yeah. Very dangerous, I think they were a mixture of Paiute and Bennett or, back then. Yeah. Yeah. And we’re still shown in barracks. Probably not too closely related to the Nez Perce, and, well, could have been. They were renegades, you know? yeah, they got the name from eating the mountain sheep, mostly. Well, I’d have these meetings on the outside, and the various tribes would come together to trade, and it was forbidden that they should intermarry.

00;29;49;24 - 00;30;14;29 Speaker 1 but you know how it is. And then they’d kick them out. well, that seemed to be the foundation of the sheep eater. They want to make it interesting and interesting. Race of people. Yeah, they were all ambitious. gosh. What else do you have in there that you want to put on the record here for Mars to get Go for the university to get ready to store any other documents for things?

00;30;14;29 - 00;30;43;09 Speaker 1 Well, we should I don’t like mention now I don’t believe here you know outside of the original the sheep eater map and did you say you had another thing from that committee on on the primitive area, the one that had the final papers on that. But designating the Bush serviceman, that’s the Forest Service report there. And well, now I’ve got the minute for the meeting here someplace.

00;30;43;14 - 00;31;18;10 Speaker 1 Yeah, that’s on that purple, the one with the purple ink. But that was the first meeting. There must have been another meeting after that. Yeah, I’ve got a, We’ve got it work. Yeah, Yeah. Estimated not a dollar about. Very good. What was the first time you ever heard about the. The primitive area yourself? Well, long, long.

00;31;18;10 - 00;31;48;26 Speaker 1 About 20, I made my first trip in, ah, 1924. Of course I was there. Talk even that far back about making a primitive error here that. Well, no, I don’t remember. There was, And I was. I went in, come down across the middle park and up, Brush Creek and Thunder Mountain and down Monument. Warren And on a crooked river and in committees.

00;31;50;02 - 00;32;17;22 Speaker 1 And we had some bad storms, so we turned around and backtracked out. And I always remember our night. It wasn’t on the middle park. The currie’s on the is now They are flying the ranch. Two brothers. And, you know, we came down out of that high country and go down there and hear the grasshoppers out and the fruit on the trees and, know warm, so.

00;32;17;23 - 00;32;43;24 Speaker 1 Yeah, warm. Nice. Yeah, that is pretty nice. Yeah. And then we went in for an MRI, so he’s doing pretty high to get out. Yeah. And we didn’t hurt. Do know. Yeah. Yeah. Right over the top to get out and Yeah. No that really has no bearing on interesting picture on a bunch of surface. Looks like something we want to send you from on our way.

00;32;43;26 - 00;33;26;01 Speaker 1 Probably is. Yeah, well, but that’s a copy of the first letter we sent to the university, I think. Yeah, that’s. Yeah, that’s what it did. This article about General Grant Kitchen in here did you know it didn’t serve with Grant along with everybody else. He’d been with the. Well I wouldn’t know. he was evidently quite a soldier marching wherever that fighting going on.

00;33;26;01 - 00;34;07;04 Speaker 1 Why he was there. Grant, of course, was, was at Vicksburg when Wild Bill Hickok was there. Yeah, but. Well, a so I presume that he probably knew Grant died. Gosh. Yeah. Yeah, he used to. That’s probably the reason for this. Yeah. Paper. Paper itself, of course, is even without that article is indeed money, too. It’s not exactly a brand new paper.

00;34;07;04 - 00;35;26;23 Speaker 1 No. Ogden, Utah 1924 August nine. It’s tomorrow. The Yep. Quite a few years ago and called automatic pistol 500 country move more in Utah. You know you could buy a shell colt automatic pistol for $32. Yeah No they no Well I South Dakota Timber Protective Association is in the show with Secretary Hay now. that’s what he was in southern Idaho Protected Timber Corporation.

00;35;26;29 - 00;36;13;18 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. This is an interesting letter. In 1925, apparently somebody paid Mr. Lewis some money and a check bounced. You know, I’m sure worth helping him with it for sure. But the horse over Idaho. Over? Yeah. Was addressed to the Lewis and Coburn. Yeah. Here is a postcard. it’s no longer designated. I think over big rig.

00;36;14;19 - 00;36;44;08 Speaker 1 name headquarters. Yeah, Yeah. When I. Well, Mr. Show Wirth is the secretary of the South Timber Protective Association. Helped to form the primitive area. And yet some of the timber people, lumber people seem to be trying to get. We don’t add it to get some of that timber we’re now living on of commercial timber, even work. you know it’s another thing think the one time pre they got get it.

00;36;44;15 - 00;37;02;26 Speaker 1 Yeah that’s true. This is Yeah. Some of the old correspondence here call them the boy that used to back the Kirby do. Hi. Hi. Can we have a few more minutes. We’re real interesting here. Okay, fine. How are you.

00;37;02;28 - 00;37;03;20 Speaker 2 Now. Are you.

00;37;03;23 - 00;37;04;22 Speaker 1 Good. yeah.

00;37;04;28 - 00;37;08;08 Speaker 2 You’re all looking like Boise with the resources.

00;37;08;18 - 00;37;17;15 Speaker 1 yeah. We’re building, right? What I should say. Yeah. good. I haven’t time to do otherwise. dear.

00;37;17;18 - 00;37;19;28 Speaker 2 Well, should we come back again?

00;37;20;06 - 00;37;35;23 Speaker 1 no, no, no. Just a few more minutes here and a fascinating stuff. That’s going. Yeah, another one to come home.

00;37;35;25 - 00;38;39;03 Speaker 1 Did a lot of people and order supplies and things and clear over in Salt Lake and Ogden area, you know? Yeah. And, in the early days, when I was pretty well done up there, that David again here I got in Nashville, you know. Yeah. And, you’re going and car Johnson Now, he was with a party that made this right He’s a he’s been he’s an old time photographer here and bought these every four years and I think he’s done this still carrying on him, you know, as I see these a, buddy within the group, he was the one to fix and effect,

00;38;39;05 - 00;39;17;13 Speaker 1 He took that big group picture that you have out there with all the other members of the party in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah. pretty packed in there. So they don’t get. Well. It’s not as car fun and they’re, they’re most of it has bearing on it. Did you say next time we talking about this that cougar Dave had some correspondence with the Meadows and other people like.

00;39;17;13 - 00;39;45;21 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. there’s another, and I am quite seeing the letter here. Yep. That, they’re in here, and there’s, I think it was one of the male brothers that gave them the man like arrival correspondence in here in regard to that. Yeah. AT Man That’s the one he took with him when he went after the horses.

00;39;45;21 - 00;40;16;09 Speaker 1 Yeah. No. Yeah. No, if he too had got them both. Yeah. Yeah. 44. That’s right. If he’d had them. Yeah. Yeah. That was then. And a big guy and he got yeah. I can see why you and he got along well together and how he and he was the he just didn’t go for everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Well in other words there’d been others drive by that place needed.

00;40;16;10 - 00;40;40;17 Speaker 1 Wouldn’t even let them go. Yeah. Yeah. Bar service on that one naturally, you know. Sure. Yeah. And haven’t you, haven’t you ever had the feeling that people who spend a lot of time in the outdoors and deal with nature a lot are a little more choosy about the kind of people the way. Yeah, absolutely. Because they know, you know, true things from.

00;40;40;21 - 00;41;01;21 Speaker 1 Yeah. And, the Park Service was always very good to him meeting at the Ed Wood, and, you know, they’d be down there late in the fall before they pull out for the winter. Why, they’d see that is what was in and no doubt if they had any supplies over why he had those they looked at that he didn’t want to show it to them.

00;41;01;21 - 00;41;25;05 Speaker 1 Yeah. No he didn’t. Good thing for everybody that he didn’t. Well I’ll say I don’t know what they did in the little town and they tried to pressure me and again 99 year lease on that airport nightclub snag there too. Good. That didn’t work. It boomeranged. You could have told him, you know, they had a tractor of a Chamberlain last year.

00;41;25;14 - 00;41;54;07 Speaker 1 yeah. On a strip in the middle of primitive area that. Yeah, that’s that their deal. Nobody else can take any equipment out. They want something. They go ahead and use it. Yeah, but yeah. Where The binoculars, Mr. Lewis. Yeah. Yeah. That was really mayor and he also he gave these to me, said, I’ve got these, these Carl Zeiss.

00;41;54;09 - 00;42;18;21 Speaker 1 And of course, they were the best they were. And these Lemaire feel better. Also, the better were at that time. Sure. And I carried him for quite a spell. But they’re. They’re part of the collection. What, what strength? They’re. They’ve. You know, But I think they’re about seven. Yeah, they work smoothly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah.

00;42;18;24 - 00;42;43;06 Speaker 1 Hey, they’re sharp. Well, they were. They were one of the very best. They earlier were early class. I’ve seen some modern ones that aren’t any better. These have a nice wide feel. Yeah, they’re a little bulky compared to some of the newer ones. But as far as the sharpness, the lenses, they focused down shorter than some. I’m picking up the corner of the bird place over there.

00;42;43;06 - 00;43;15;11 Speaker 1 But yeah, 15 feet. Yeah, they’re in good focus. Yeah. Did you use them much yourself? Yes I did. I carried them for a year when I, when they were made. They’re probably only real relics that way. But the grass and it was really good. Yeah. You see any date here? But maybe with a strong light, something would show.

00;43;15;13 - 00;43;48;25 Speaker 1 But they’ve been a lot of interesting places that they have to. Yeah, there’s a lot more older than we found out of the old house when I tore the floor up. Curling iron? Yeah. Yeah, but you sure that show this to my kids upstairs? They wouldn’t have said, you know, Funny, I can’t. the here. Too small. Kind of that right here.

00;43;49;03 - 00;44;41;02 Speaker 1 yeah. And that. Yeah, yeah. And here’s a fishing game. License 19 080, and, Washington, District of Columbia. You remember thumb society here? Yeah. You got the American Geographic Society. yeah. And that’s, that’s one magazine that he had. He, Yeah, the National Geographic. Yeah. 1921. I did this answer to my question, but it seems kind of unreal that when you’re back there in the back country and you own your own land, the whole thing, you still have to get a license to fish on it.

00;44;41;04 - 00;45;17;15 Speaker 1 Even in 1908. Well, there wasn’t any garden running around back then, that’s for sure. And here’s some interesting figures that we were talking about when you and I were discussing this before. Dave Lewis residences, Roosevelt, Idaho, the, you know, permitted to pursue hunting fish within the state of Idaho. Subject limitation. There you see it of a dollar a holder is 60 something like 61, maybe years of age, five feet nine inches tall, weighs £130.

00;45;17;17 - 00;45;42;19 Speaker 1 My complexion has gray hair and blue eyes are timber. 1919 age. You said he wasn’t real tall, so that but within five nine. Yeah he wasn’t that didn’t didn’t look five nine and No not all five seven. Yeah. And and the amount. Yeah. It would count and if they didn’t there’s no good anymore is it kind of kind of wet done or.

00;45;42;19 - 00;46;02;06 Speaker 1 No. Well yeah, Yeah. Underhill The last time I was there in 1924, you could still see the buildings out in the lake now. So they’re right there They are, you know, Sure underwater there. Yeah. The rest of this also part of the same stuff. yeah. It’s all, There’s a motley crew. That’s the old cabin up there, see?

00;46;02;15 - 00;46;33;26 Speaker 1 and you know, them big fir trees that are there and out here the way they look them. Yeah, I think. Yeah. Here’s was joining us here in the state of Idaho on the game warden. You know, predatory animals. Everything was a predator then anyway. yeah. Including rabbits, fish, woman If they spoil it here, the first first sentence is pretty good.

00;46;33;29 - 00;47;04;03 Speaker 1 Which says this permit in no way authorizes the taking of such animals that are classed as herbarium. Animals are protected all seasons of the year within the boundaries of said preserve. But that did they have a the big creek game preserve. Now where was that and what was that not been back there the 20th there June 1922. They have a game preserve in that area before they made it a perimeter.

00;47;04;03 - 00;47;39;22 Speaker 1 Very good They had I wouldn’t know what or garden or why didn’t Anyway, it was preserved just by distance. More than been on the ground. Preserved, Well, the cougars, of course, were predators. yeah, Yeah, yeah. That’s an interesting document, too. this marsh is going to be exposed. And so the people at the university, when they find out what this is all about, there’s a monument again, Louis and I group legitimate?

00;47;39;24 - 00;48;14;05 Speaker 1 I think so. Here. Now, that might have been down on them. I think it’s down on that Ranger either the Ranger Cloud Black Wall and where then? And then who came after him? Ted Koppel and then Burkholder. And and it was another name that I just barely land it. And, and then, you’re not there, but you’re the guy, the one before Dodger.

00;48;14;09 - 00;48;37;14 Speaker 1 You the short name, wasn’t it? yeah, Yeah, He’s, he was a big Swedish boy, but he didn’t. They didn’t even get in there to look it over. They had him on fire or someplace, But he did. He did come in and look it over and. And okayed my, irrigation system so that I could get the beneficial use that non water.

00;48;37;22 - 00;49;05;08 Speaker 1 Primrose Creek. Yeah. Rock Creek Island. Yeah, He died laying on the deck out there in McCall, and so he just, came in, and I appreciate it very much. Yeah, very good. Just the old cabin at the ranch look like it? Yeah. Now, this. The old original cabins over the old cellar. this is the one that Mr. Lewis himself stayed in?

00;49;05;13 - 00;49;23;17 Speaker 1 Yeah, Even after you bought. No, no, the. You know, that old cellar hole right there behind our new cabins? Yeah, well, it’s a deal over that. I see. And when they went in there, all it would ever get to sell. Yeah, I guess. First, as you say, they’re real original. Now, here it goes again. They inherited that big old fir tree right here.

00;49;23;20 - 00;49;46;18 Speaker 1 The the on the up, the Berkeley. A little newer and newer one right here wasn’t there. Yeah. These are pictures Mr. Lewis took for somebody that. Well, this one particular girl and, we have time to look at some of those. we picked it up here. Here’s another one you see of the house. It is a little partridge around here.

00;49;46;20 - 00;49;54;29 Speaker 1 Your little feller here? Yeah. Now they’re, big trees.

00;49;55;01 - 00;50;32;26 Speaker 1 You took the dog? Yeah. Yeah, still is. Now, this is on the back of a what we call the old house up there. That’s the way it was before We, Well, we remodel it. What do you do with that range? So still even go only to clipping. You tend to come and. he must have really been interested in the grant.

00;50;32;29 - 00;50;44;19 Speaker 1 Here’s a clipping about the divorce of General Grant’s youngest son. So he must have really had an interest in the Grant family. Yeah. Yeah.

00;50;44;21 - 00;50;48;09 Unknown He,

00;50;49;23 - 00;51;16;28 Speaker 1 This his scraper here. This one, too? Yeah. Got that right. carriage cutter. Yeah. No, a lot of them are double, you know. Pretty sharp, even. Yeah. Yeah. Now there is a picture of the little cabin. See in here? The old cabin. yeah. Yeah. I see how they relate to each other. Yes, When I.

00;51;17;05 - 00;51;44;06 Speaker 1 When I acquired the place, it was the down here. It evidently they had even a dark roof on it. Yeah. Yeah. And there’s the cellar over the entry down here was still there. Yeah. Yeah. I’m sure you’ve never seen very long. That is dogs. Yeah. I don’t know. they were, they were right along. When did the first.

00;51;44;09 - 00;52;26;23 Speaker 1 Who built that old cabin down at the mouth of Monumental or monumental in Big Creek? The coming together down there. Where where Wilbur is. I wouldn’t know. I mean that real. That’s been a long time. Yeah, I would, Wilbur built a new one, didn’t he? Yeah. No, that’s. He’ll get going again. Yeah. Yeah. And they turn it down, and they’re pretty good.

00;52;26;25 - 00;52;58;09 Speaker 1 Used to be able to the air on the track, which now you know they have you the diamond years, right? Yeah. They went back or. Yeah. I’ll look at Tiger Clinton-Dix. I Well this stuff has got to have to be preserved up there and this gives us an idea of the kind of cases. Well, I’ve got to have one big picture.

00;52;58;19 - 00;53;21;20 Speaker 1 how big is it in. this is about it. Larger than this whole thing. And it shows the whole group that were in there, owners survey of that when they were going over there, that would be an important thing to start with, and I think there’s plenty of it. G Good to, to different we get three things that actually to, to memorialize here.

00;53;21;20 - 00;53;46;06 Speaker 1 You’ve got to the Louis years well before you got the sheep before camping yeah and then Lewis himself under the trapper and then the Taylors. Yeah. And then the project. Yeah. And all four of those you have things that relate to on. Yeah. And that, if some other, you know, work here would be indirect in placing a student or something in there.

00;53;46;06 - 00;54;04;29 Speaker 1 Why, there’s quite a background here, you know. this is it. Most place wouldn’t have at all. This is what got to happen, you see, because somebody’s going to do it. Some going more than one student trying to do a study of the whole history of this. Yeah, probably write a thesis on a book. Yeah. That’s why my youngest daughter wants to write a book about it.

00;54;05;01 - 00;54;24;03 Speaker 1 She read some of the stuff in the tapes, and she wants to be a writer anyway, so she. You’re her hero now. She’s gonna write a book about you. So look at anything you tell her. I may end up in print, but, well, I’ll have to get out of my language, then. My crazy I got languages that Betty was was amazed.

00;54;24;08 - 00;54;41;10 Speaker 1 The gal who was transcribing those tapes, very infrequently, but a couple of times would not be able to identify a word, and she just leave it blank so we know where it was missing. And I can check the tape and see what it was. And but too late for that, right? Mr. Taylor didn’t use her kind of language.

00;54;41;12 - 00;55;12;05 Speaker 1 She thought the blanks of For tongue. But do you have any other relics of Mr. Lewis’s that should be preserved up there to help them with those? The binoculars and the, yeah, I’ve got the old tin bathtub down there, and. the one that came from Thunder Mountain. The old, rocker came from Thunder Mountain.

00;55;12;09 - 00;55;38;13 Speaker 1 Not a, you know, the one that I used there in the home. I didn’t know. yeah, It didn’t even know. They hadn’t even the spindle broken. Brokenhearted in RV. No, Boconnoc. It’s pathetic. There’s no doubt about. And, there’s an interesting piece to this, You know, we’ve got another one or two of them. that’s an old paper cutter.

00;55;38;13 - 00;55;57;17 Speaker 1 I think is what it is. But, we’ve got a regular backward cutter like they had on the counter. Slack off. Yeah, They get, trying to plug in their cut off so much well marked, and they cut it off on the market out of $0.10 worth of water. They didn’t have time to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The darn horseshoe.

00;55;57;17 - 00;56;19;14 Speaker 1 One. I have to remember our she was on a station on the island. Had the little start. Right. I can remember back migrating down. Yeah. And the part that I remember were about all that wide and probably half, at least half an inch thick. Yeah. And, how about that one? catty. It was, What they call the Caddy was on the side.

00;56;19;16 - 00;56;44;19 Speaker 1 A little box with, I suppose had two or three dozen. And by a chunk. Yeah. And was spittoon handy when you get going on there? Yeah, well, this is. This is a tape recorder, I think. But we’ve got we’ve got a record breaker. Cutter goes on a you know, on the counter. Yeah. Well the stuff belongs at the ranch.

00;56;44;19 - 00;57;10;28 Speaker 1 There’s no question about that. And that’ll be called the Taylor Collection or something. And I’ve got a you know, I’ve got the comb that he made down there and the grinding iron he made that and the heartaches. What was his brand? Heartache. Heart to heart with an X in the middle, you know. Hey, Art, come like this and like this and cross your head.

00;57;11;11 - 00;57;36;00 Speaker 1 I see. Yeah. I had recorded one time. Sure. The pretty hard to, to make too much out. And there’s a couple of those down there that date of way back to when they used to bring the mail in there. And I don’t know, they’re hanging up on the back of the house at all. They kind of collect them, but I didn’t think anybody would bother.

00;57;36;01 - 00;57;59;26 Speaker 1 In fact, I don’t know or wouldn’t let anybody bother anything around there. You know, because those antiques, they they’re all supposed to come to me. And I don’t want to be skeptical, but, I’d feel better if those things weren’t just lying around. They’re loose now with the number of people in and out of there. Well, aren’t going to know quite what they’re all about.

00;57;59;26 - 00;58;20;28 Speaker 1 You know, the next time I go down there and more is around. Well, I’ll get the doggone it. And, you know, put them down, put them away someplace they call them or something. You don’t see that everyday either. No. Somebody might not even realize what they were. Yeah. Maybe you’d cut them off the strap. Yeah. Yeah. So that.

00;58;21;01 - 00;58;46;08 Speaker 1 Is there anything else up there that should be protected until they get a place to display? Well, I think, Stamp got the bathtub, went through all the years, I get no doubt. And I think it’s pretty safe. gosh. Yeah. And I had a couple down there and I went down there and they throw the bottom rocker out and right out of the Griffin out.

00;58;47;07 - 00;59;14;05 Speaker 1 so I can put it up and put it away. How long ago was that all that was? 47. That’s trouble. These things are people, you know, It’s just. Just a piece of furniture. Just a piece of equipment. If somebody doesn’t know the background of and some of this stuff ought to be labeled or tagged so that, you know, it’s stored.

00;59;14;05 - 00;59;34;18 Speaker 1 And if somebody’s checking it over, well, it was a days old blacksmith, this professional blacksmith. And, he did the blacksmithing for those up and down the creek, and they got stuck on top of it. Bring it down there and maybe they picked. And where do you think we know that? Right there, correct? Yeah. And mine, that big rock up there.

00;59;34;18 - 00;59;52;12 Speaker 1 But the old cavern was the the blacksmith shop had about a half a roof on it and one lead ballot has been all that here. Well I’ll let that let’s go to the board and I shouldn’t I should have dug it in and put it on the shelter train. But, I think the old porch, that’s part of it, is still there.

00;59;52;16 - 01;00;14;07 Speaker 1 What do you use for fuel? Charcoal? Yeah. Or. Or coal. Where do you get coal services? They got the coal, you know. Well in order to get their hewing there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, coal maybe the only is you have a little trouble running a blacksmith shop on a softwood fire. Well, you might get by with mahogany.

01;00;14;07 - 01;00;42;13 Speaker 1 I wouldn’t know. That mahogany is awfully hard and it gets awfully hot. Is there much of it up there. yeah. Yeah. What’s the best firewood in those hills? If you had your choice just to build a cooking fair out of all the, the birch, some of the others, you know, But they’re scared, you know? But there’s lots of that, like birch, and you’ve got a green and it’s ready and grind it where you put out a lot of heat.

01;00;42;17 - 01;00;59;29 Speaker 1 If you don’t cut it green, you don’t cut it at all, do you, Unless you want to. Well, whenever it dies, it’s gone right now just to hold firm to put it in. I thought it would get harder when it gets. No. no. I learn something new every day. Yeah. No, these fall down or get broken down.

01;01;00;08 - 01;01;17;04 Speaker 1 It go on. Right now. We just had Birch back in Ohio when I was a kid. They used to use some of it in houses, and it would get season and get real hard. yeah. Must’ve been different. Well, different type of bark. It was, It was probably more like this that we get the near out of now.

01;01;17;27 - 01;01;43;08 Speaker 1 Yeah. And, this is get the semi hard with this blackbird. Good enough. Well, I do want to keep you going and make everything, but this is. This is the stuff that’s got to go up there. But we got to do something about, preserving the things that are there so they don’t get mishap.