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Aman_mcleod
Aman McLeod:
Interviewer: Please state your name and your title or role at UI.
AM: I’m Aman McLeod. I'm an Assistant Professor of Political Science and I'm Affiliated Faculty at the College of Law and I'm also the Pre-Law advisor.
IN: What is your ethnicity or race? Do you identify as African-American, African, Caribbean, etc.?
AM: I identify as African-American.
IN: Where are you from?
AM: I was born right outside of Washington D.C. in Chevrolet, Maryland. It’s a suburb of Washington. I grew up in and around Washington D.C.
IN: What brought you to UI?
AM: A job. An opportunity for a visiting position at the Law School came up and the Dean thought I was a good fit and he brought me on. Then, while I was here that first year I got asked to help build the pre-law program and I did that. I started teaching a couple of classes in political science and then when a tenure track position came up in Political Science after 3 years they took me on there. The Law School also kept me on as Affiliated faculty. So that’s why I’m over in Poli-Sci, but I still teach over there sometimes.
IN: Have you had any previous experiences that you feel prepared you for UI?
AM: Well, I taught right out of graduate school and while I was in graduate school I taught at a Polish university. And when I finished my PhD, I taught at the University of Michigan for a year. Then as a visitor and then I was at Rutgers University in Camden for 7 years teaching at the Law School and Political Science there. Then I was at the Forte Coastal School of Law for a year. I feel like I had a lot of experience before I came here.
IN: Was it a tough transition moving to Moscow since it’s predominantly white?
AM: No, not really because I guess I'm used to living in spaces where I'm very much a minority. All through school that was the case, then I lived in Poland, which very few people who live in that country are anything other than Polish or Roman Catholic and all that. I navigated that. Being part of a small minority is something I've never really concerned myself with. That doesn't bother me. I remember getting phone calls from friends and emails saying, when I told them I was coming out here, saying, “Hey, are you going to be okay?” The legacy of the white supremacist presence, in North Idaho especially, people remember. But I tell people that I haven't had any problems up here.
IN: Do you feel like you'll stay in this community for a long time? Why or why not?
AM: It’s probably right now the best professional opportunity for me. I don't have any plans to leave at the moment. I'm enjoying it quite a bit. I've got great colleagues, the department has treated me awesome, it’s a really great work environment. I've got no plans to check out. I guess I'm one of those people that as long as everything’s working I'm here. I have no idea what 10 years is going to be. Everything is working great right now and I have no plans to check out.
IN: Did you bring family with you?
AM: I did. I have a wife and a 12 year old son and a 9 year old daughter.
IN: Have you built any strong relationships with any other black people or faculty at UI?
AM: I think I have good relations with many of the faculty of color. So, including Dr. Freeman. So, I don't know anyone I don't consider good colleagues or friends. The only ones I don't consider friends are the ones I don't know very well, because I haven't met them. I feel like I do, absolutely.
IN: Have you had positive experiences related to your race at UI?
AM: Not specifically because of my race. I've had a lot of positive experiences, but it’s not to my knowledge because I'm African-American. I've just have had the opportunity to do some enjoyable and fun things, I've been invited to give some lectures, and to participate on panels. It’s been a lot of fun. It’s been great getting to know the students and I've got great colleagues. So, but I don't connect that in my mind to me being black.
IN: Have you had negative experiences related to your race at UI?
AM: No, not the university. I mean I don't consider certain things– like for example, the incident that happened a couple weeks ago where somebody left those fliers around saying It’s Okay To Be White. I don't consider that directed at me. In fact, I was quoted in an interview in the Moscow Pullman Daily News in which I talked to a reporter about it and I told him I said I laughed when I heard about that because I thought it was funny. I wasn't scared, I wasn't intimidated. I just thought it was, on the face of it: absurd.
AM: But then also, well obviously this person is a coward trying to intimidate people, but it’s so laughably bad that I couldn’t stop laughing. I never felt threatened, by that. No, not really. I mean not anything that doesn’t happen. I mean occasionally you’ll see people in big trucks running around with Confederate flags. I saw a guy that had a Confederate hoodie, but do I feel personally threatened by that. No, I just see it and just kind of go like I saw that in Florida, too. It is what it is.
IN: Have you noticed any differences in people’s treatment of you since Donald Trump has been in office?
AM: Me? No.
IN: What do you feel you have contributed to your department at UI?
AM: I took the Pre-Law program that was pretty much moribund and I made that into something that now, I mean, there is a Pre-Law Society that didn't exist before. I got it started. I feel like the advising, I've tried to create a robust advising infrastructure. I've tried to publicize and bring a lot more events related to learning about legal careers and learning about the law and so on and so forth to this community. I feel like that’s an accomplishment. Also, in terms of outreach, I gave a series of bar lectures this year one in Boise, one in Pocatello, one here. I feel like that’s part of my contribution to the outreach.
AM: I also talk with civic groups. I just did an interview with a high school group in southern Idaho where we talked about the Constitution and the law. I'm really passionate about teaching people about civics and America’s institutions and the law because there’s a lot of ignorance about that. I feel like one of the things I'm really passionate about is bringing that to a wider audience. I've tried to be a good representative of the University in that respect and I feel like I've contributed to outreach by doing that. Those are some of the things that I'm particularly proud of.
IN: How long have you been at the University?
AM: I came here in 2013, my first 3 years as a visitor. I’ve been in one status and then another and this is going on year 6.
IN: Do you bring anything different to the table?
AM: One of the things I bring to the table is that I have a JD and a PhD. I bring the perspectives of both the legal profession and political science. They have traditionally been separate, but I have always saw the wall as something very permeable and that the two mesh and that they’re intimately related. I feel like a lot of my work straddles the gap between the two and sort of brings them together. There’s that. I don't know how far you want me to go with that. I’m not contrasting myself with any colleagues because I don't know what other people do. I try to create a learning environment, in my classes, that’s more focused on skill development, than on memorization.
AM: I like to get people talking and I really like to bring new perspectives to students, maybe things that they haven’t heard of before. But always in an environment of openness in the sense that I go out of my way in my syllabus and my classes to tell people that there are no opinions that are out of bounds and nobody should ever be afraid to have what they currently think challenged because otherwise what are you doing here. If you already know everything, then why do you need to go to university. The only thing I demand is that people are respectful to each other. Ideas are fair game, but you shouldn’t be–Sydney, this is for you– throwing shade on someone. I try to really cultivate that.
AM: Sometimes I get frustrated because I feel like students don't want to talk. Especially what I teach. I teach civil liberties. I sometimes wonder when we talk about things like affirmative action and segregation and things like that do people not want to say anything because there’s an African-American man who’s their teacher. I sometimes wonder about that, like I throw things out there and I hear crickets chirp. And I'm like well okay fine, I'll give both points of view. Sometimes I wonder about that, but I don't consider that racism on part of the students.
AM: I consider that potential awkwardness. But that can happen when female professors talk about gender discrimination or sexual assault. It can happen for a lot of different reasons. I just wonder if that happens in my class, but I’m not criticizing anyone. I’m just trying to find ways to break down barriers to communication and learning so that students don’t feel like they ever have to not speak their minds or ask questions. No one has ever told me that, I just kind of wonder. I’m always trying to find ways to improve in that regard.
IN: Is there anything I should have asked you?
AM: No, except to say that in some sense I think that my presence on the faculty here might be a little bit more beneficial to students perhaps than at other universities that i've been at. I don’t for a lot of my students, I mean just given the demographics in the state of Idaho, some of them I suppose might never have had a person of color for a teacher. And to the extent that I am an opportunity for them to have experience with diverse people. That’s a good thing.
Dorah_mtui
Dorah Mtui:
Interviewer: What is your name and position at the University?
DM: My name is Dorah Mtui, and I’m Lab Coordinator slash lab manager for the college of natural resources.
IN: In terms of race and ethnicity how do you identify?
DM: I identify Black. But as an African, American, the way it is assigned since arrived there.
IN: Where are you originally from?
DM: I’m from Tanzania.
IN: What made you choose the University of Idaho when choosing where to work?
DM: Oh, that’s interesting. Um, I am a trailing spouse, followed my husband here. So, did I choose here? I don’t know. This is where he ended up being, he got faculty position and I came along.
IN: So does he work here as well?
DM: Yes
IN: Where does he work?
DM: He works at the college of science, yeah.
IN: What challenges have you experienced as a member of the University of Idaho faculty and staff?
DM: I am staff, not faculty. Well, like other employers, University if facing lack of staff. We have a lot of people who are either retired, of quit working and you wish could have more people to help you. So yeah.
IN: What has the climate been while you have been here?
DM: Um, the university is a little different from the city. You asking me in my experience as a black person right?
IN: Yes.
DM: University is more welcoming than the city, I think. At university campus, I do interact with people from different places and who have interacted with people from various places, so they don't show, or they don't seem to see something different towards you. Rather than your work and they try to judge based on your skills based on how you do your job, that’s how I experience. In the city it is a little different. Depending who you meet or who you interact with.
IN: And what group do you mean?
DM: What I mean is, interaction with older people is different from young people. Young people are more acceptance of black persons. I been here 13 years, and you can see the first time you met with people and how they treat you. Now 10 years later, it’s a little bit different when you talk to them. They treat you different. The time has changed or evolved.
IN: Have you been able to develop positive relationships with other black people during your time here at the University of Idaho?
DM: I have met other blacks, they are either staff or faculty with African origin, those are the first people I met, because when someone hear how you speak, the first thing they get is your accent. So especially your colleague, white people, they say, “I know someone from Africa,” that is where they connect you, to another black person. So those are people I met first when we got here.
DM: Then, last year after the death of George Floyd happened, the diversity officer, she organized us, a group of black people to meet online. That’s where I met other staff who were African-American, online for the first time. Of course we met and since then and there’s a positive relationship, whenever we meet online, people tend to care more about you, your feeling, your wellbeing, things like that. That’s really make connection and feel that you have a supporting community around you.
IN: Rochelle asked me how your experience at the university might be impacted since you are from Tanzania?
DM: My experience is a little bit different. I think, it varies from a person who came straight here from Africa or Tanzania a little bit because before coming to USA, I was living in Japan. And so earlier years when I compare my experience, my only reference point was my home country, or Africa. But now, coming to USA, I have three areas for comparison, that okay, I was in Tanzania, I was in Japan, I was in USA. I always try to make sure what fits where when speaking about my experiences. I think that helps me a lot with what I experience here. In my comparison in different places. The treatment is different.
DM: For instance, you and I, when you see me for the first time you see a black woman, and I see a white woman, and things or different kind of interactions move on from there. That is my first interaction with people, and then slowly it comes by name, I’ll call you Irelyne, and you will call me Dorah, Okay? Because you say oh I met Dorah, but that comes later, at first you say, oh I met a black woman somewhere. So at first I was shocked when I found that, that was in Japan. Because I was not expecting that, people referring to me by my skin color. So coming here, I was expecting that, the first initial reaction would be about my skin color, then slowly coming to know me by name. So my experience here was a little different because I was exposed to it a little bit somewhere else. So what I am now comparing is treatment from different people to how it was back in Japan, because there is no comparison to Tanzania on this.
IN: What do you feel has been your greatest contribution to your department during your time at the university?
DM: My greatest contribution to my college is improving safety culture in the college and coordination of laboratory works. When I started, they were without a lab manager and things were out of control. I established rules and order, equipment maintenance and inventory, and replacement of old equipment. I am the only black staff here (to the best of my knowledge) and I try to be as carefully as possible not to draw unwanted attention to myself. I would like to add that I like now we have Black Faculty and Staff Association. That was the best thing. It is not yet officially put in the university as one of the organizations. This group is the best thing I think for black employees.
DM: It was the right time to start it. At first there was no such a thing as that. This group offer a place for us where we can meet and discuss our experiences freely, especially because we are all black and from different areas on campus. The death of George Floyd and the treatment of black affected us. So it was great to have a place to talk and discuss. I think I can call lifelong friendship with people I didn't know before here on Campus and knowing that they are here to offer support and listen to you. I hope many people would be able to join this group. And for students, of course I haven't I met many black students, only a few who were able to join our meetings. However, there are Black students union and African students organizations. I encourage them to join those groups. There are so many good things that can happen when working together in groups. only students who were able to come to one of our meetings.
IN: Do you feel like the University has done enough to support you during your time here?
DM: I feel like they are trying their best. The university at this state they have to balance their things, but I think they are trying their best, and I think that comes in terms of following what it brings in, that I appreciate for instance, the last few years Human resource worked on the pay compensation. They tried to pay us well. At first I was being paid way below. But then they considered my education level and what I am supposed to be paid, and they bring it up. I feel like they do try. I don’t know, they do it for everyone or they did increase my pay because I am black. I think they value people’s skills and what they bring to the university. Do I feel I get a good support as a black employee? I guess they are trying their best by having non-discriminatory policies.
Hassel_morrison
Hassel Morrison:
Interviewer: What is your name and what was your position at the University of Idaho?
HM: My name is Dr Hassel Andre Morrison, I am, well, when I was at the University of Idaho I was the Associate Dean of Students.
IN: And what is your current position at St. Olaf’s?
HM: Currently I am the Vice President for Student Life at St. Olaf College.
IN: In terms of race and ethnicity how do you identify?
HM: Black or African-American, however, I prefer Black.
IN: Where are you originally from?
HM: I was born in Eden, North Carolina and grew up in Cascade, Virginia.
IN: Where did you go to College?
HM: I received my bachelors of science from Radford University. I received my Masters from Virginia State University, and I received my Doctorate from North Carolina State University.
IN: How did you end up at the University of Idaho?
HM: Career trajectory wise, I was looking for the opportunity to get more experience, a broader portfolio, and also an opportunity to challenge myself by being in an unfamiliar environment. I often encourage students and new employees to challenge themselves by being okay with being uncomfortable. I decided to be uncomfortable and go to a place that I wasn't familiar with. So it was an awesome adventure and it was an opportunity for me while also working on advancing my career.
IN: How long have you been an administrator at the University of Idaho?
HM: So I started at the University of Idaho in 2015 and I was there until 2018.
IN: How has the climate of the University changed since you first arrived?
HM: The town of Moscow was quaint, and it was very friendly, when I was there and the people were kind to me and my family. As far as the University, I really enjoyed interacting with people, overall they were nice, kind and very supportive. I really enjoyed Moscow as well as the University environment. As far as the diversity, it wasn't really diverse. It was lacking in race diversity, and culture, so that was a little bit of a challenge for me and my family. We were active in the community through Girl Scouts, which was a tremendous resource. My daughters were often the only Black people in all of their classes, I was often the only Black person in meetings, and my wife often the only Black person in community organizations.
IN: Has the University of Idaho been supportive of your contributions to your field?
HM: Yes I think it was, for the most part. I think people were supportive of ideas and different initiatives that I wanted to accomplish.
IN: What do you feel is your biggest contribution to the university?
HM: Oh wow, I think one of the things that I am most proud of is helping students with economic, health, and hope challenges. Also, I am proud of the staff that I selected to work at the university. I think that they were really good additions to the division of student affairs. There are several staff members that are still there that I selected, they are doing great work at the university and the students are benefiting greatly. So I am excited about my ability to have come there and be thoughtful with the people that I selected and then they were able to carry out “student first” programs and initiatives. They are were better positioned to ensure student success.
IN: What are some of the struggles you have faced during your time at the University of Idaho?
HM: I think that some of the struggles or one of the things I would often get concerned about was the ability to recruit and retain staff of color, specifically black staff. I think the university does well with the selection and recruitment of native and Latinx staff. I do wish that we did more to recruit and retain African-Americans. Likewise recruiting Black international students and athletes are important, however I think that just tells a limited perspective of who Black people are and we do have Black people who are athletes, who major in STEM, and who might be interested in poetry or might be outdoors enthusiast. A part of student success is a matter of trying to help people see themselves at the university, so one of the things I always wanted to know was how the university could advance itself in making sure that all students feel like they belong or they can see themselves there.
IN: Have you experienced any positive experiences related to your race while at the University?
HM: The Lionel Hampton Jazz festival was always a wonderful event. I really enjoyed that experience and being one with the performers, faculty, staff and students. . I am a percussionist, so the fact that a school in the Pacific Northwest hosted a nationally well-known jazz festival named after an African-American Jazz legend was astonishing! Also, as an educator, in my role as Associate Dean, I felt a deep commitment to support Black students on campus and I embraced the responsibility of being a cultural informant for faculty, students and staff that were curious about Blacks and African-Americans.
IN: Have you had positive experiences and relationships with other black people at the University or in the city of Moscow?
HM: Oh yeah so, so as far as the staff is concerned, it was very personable. It wouldn't be odd for someone to ask you, “Hey want to go get a cup of coffee,” or, we might go to one of the local breweries, after work, it was a very nice environment. Also I felt like there were a lot of staff and faculty who really cared about the well-being of students in regards to wanting them to feel that they have a good experience at the university. I had good connectivity with staff they connected me with resources in the community about things I could do that would appeal to families.
IN: Is there anyone in particular that you have kept in touch with?
HM: Yes, Blaine Eckles, he is the Vice Provost for Student Affairs there, so I have kept in touch with him. I have also kept in touch with Cari, Jean, and Emilie and others from the Dean of students office. I have been in touch with other Black staff that have moved on to other colleges and universities, I talk to them about once a month.
IN: I recently spoke with Jessica Samuels and she actually told me you would be someone good to talk to about the BSU, what was your experience like regarding the Black Student Union while you were here?
HM: I enjoyed working with the Black Student Union, but I think it could have been stronger, I wish the University would have, or maybe they could have recruited more students of color, because it’s tough when you only have a small amount of people doing a lot of work. The population just isn't there. Sometimes people just need to be able to connect, talk, or vent with people about some of the things that’s happening in the world, especially when it’s something that impacts people that identify similarly. So, BSU as a group actually helped out by being a resource for people in general, and helped educate people who are not black to discontinue myths or perspectives that weren't true, because if you don't have experience working with a diverse group of black people, then you can come up with different assumptions based on only a few people you experienced.
HM: The good thing is that people who are part of organizations like BSU are typically from different places, so it was instantly more diverse, because not all black people are alike, we are all very different. I wish that, there were other groups on campus, like African-American fraternities and sororities, I know that that was something that I had tried to get started when I was there. I don't know how it is going now, I hear it might be going okay, but, that is one of the things that I thought would have been helpful. Often times, when something is created or exist to benefit Black or African-American people, folks assume only those people with that identity benefit. However, in my experience and observation of working on college campuses, I know that to not be true; what is true is the wise aphorism, “a rising tide lifts all boats”.
JS: My name is Jessica Samuels and was an Academic Success Counselor for student Support Services TRIO for almost 8 years. Currently I am the Assistant Director of the Office of Student Equity and Retention Specialist for the African American Student Center at Washington State University.
IN: What is your ethnicity or race? Do you identify as African-American, African, Caribbean, etc.?
JS: I am Black or mixed, as My mother was Hungarian and Norwegian, and my biological father is Black. Although I grew up being told he was a Black Puerto Rican, even though he is not. However, I was raised, my stepfather that raised me from the time I was 1, was Native American. I am a black woman, but as far as my ethnicity goes, I would say I am mixed.
IN: Where are you from?
JS: I am from Orofino, Idaho.
IN: Did you like growing up there? How big is that?
JS: It’s a very small rural logging town about an hour and a half away from here. I can say there were good aspects and there were negative aspects of growing up where I grew up. I do appreciate that it made me who I am today.
IN: What brought you to UI?
JS: A want to further my education so that I could improve my life for my kids, for community, and for my siblings.
IN: How many children do you have?
JS: I have four children.
IN: How old are they?
JS: My oldest is 19, and I have a son that will be 16 in December. I have a daughter that just turned 13 in July, and I have a 10 year old daughter as well.
IN: Have you had any previous experiences that you feel prepared you for UI?
JS: I think yeah. I think that growing up here in Idaho, that growing up in Orofino prepared me to be here at the University of Idaho. It allows me to… I think it prepared me for the culture shift that a lot of African Americans, or black people, or mixed people would experience when they come here, when they come from out of town or out of this area.
IN: Could you describe that shift?
JS: So, I mean just being the only black person. I'm used to that. I'm not sure what their experience is but I can only speak about my experiences. So coming to the University of Idaho, like, I've heard other people describe it as not being very diverse. For me, although in their perception it’s not very diverse, the University of Idaho and Moscow are very diverse in comparison to where I grew up. I'm used to being the only black person in a classroom because of where I grew up. I'm used to being, having to be that representative of the African-American community. Yeah, I feel like I was prepared to be here just because I'm used to being in this type of environment as far as being the only one. Or one among very few.
IN: Was it a tough transition moving to Moscow since it’s predominantly white?
JS: Actually, like I said in comparison to where I came from it was a more diverse. So no it wasn't a tough transition in that aspect.
IN: Was it easier then?
JS: I wouldn't necessarily say it was easy either. I came here as– there were parts of it that were easy and parts of it that weren't. When I came here I was a nontraditional student.
IN: What’s that mean?
JS: So I came here and started my Bachelor’s degree when I was 28 years old. I was married at the time, my oldest daughter was 18 months old when I started school. So that’s what a nontraditional student is. A traditional student is someone who just graduated from high school, has no spouse, has no children, or anything like that. I was transitioning into college after having been out of school for over 10 years. So there was a transition, but as far as transitioning to Moscow I didn't have the culture shock. Maybe a culture shock a in my economic background or a culture shock as in having to go to school.
JS: But there wasn't a culture shock as in all of the sudden I'm the only black person. Or a culture shock as in getting accustomed to the University of Idaho, like the physical. I knew where things were and stuff. Because when I was in high school and in junior high, I was introduced to the University of Idaho as an upward bound student. So I attended summer school here throughout high school. I began after my eighth grade year. I went here for many years. And I also lived in Moscow for a short time when I was 23. My friends went to college, and I worked in Lewiston as a hairdresser.
IN: Do you feel like you'll stay in this community for a long time? Why or why not?
JS: I've been here for a long time. So, I'm 47 years old and I've been in Moscow specifically since I started my Bachelors degree in 2004. So, I've been here for about 18 years already. I've lived in Idaho my entire life. So as far as where my career will take me in the future, I might leave, but as far as being a Idaho person I will always be from here. My family lives here, my siblings are all here, my nieces and nephews are all here, my family is here. I don't see myself leaving anytime soon. But if it happens, it could happen. Have you built any strong relationships with any other black people or faculty at UI?
JS: Yes, I have. I'm very close with the Freemans. I'm also very to a lot of people in the African community here. I'm the co-advisor for the Black Student Union.
IN: Have you had positive experiences related to your race at UI?
JS: Yeah, I would say that in my undergraduate years, so at the time when I came the Black Student Union wasn't established. I feel like that as we established the BSU back then, I had a lot of positive growth. I had a lot of good experience. I made a lot of friends that I still keep in contact with, some of them. I know that there was a BSU in the 60s and 70s because I did a little bit of research, but as to when we reestablished, yeah it was in 2004 or 2005. I know we won Student Group of the Year in about 2004 or 05 or 06. I know we did a great big event for Rosa Parks Memorial Celebration, that’s probably something in the Argonaut about that. There should be a few articles related to that from 2005 to 2009.
IN: Have you had negative experiences related to your race at UI?
JS: Oh, yes! So I just recently wrote a chapter on mixed race identity and within that I talk about a specific experience that I had here on campus as far as just working with colleagues and that was one. But I think my most negative experience was off campus, but it did affect a student on campus. It was when I first started working as an employee, it would've been in the spring semester of 2014. At the time I was a temporary staff in the Office of Multicultural Affairs as the secretary. I had just graduated with my Master’s degree. My children and I had to move off campus because we had been living in family housing from the time we had moved here from 2004 to the time that I graduated in 2013. I had a little bit of a break–you know, graduating– and then I had to try and find a job. It wasn’t until December that I actually landed the temporary position in the Office of Multicultural Affairs. We had moved into some section 8 housing and it didn't allow for me to take my washer and dryer. There was a little laudrying mat within our apartment complex but the little hoodlum kids around the area had been peeing in the washers and dryers and stuff so I took mine and my four children’s clothes down to the laundromat, down here.
JS: The Sudzee, it’s right down here across the street from Taj’s. I had left my children at home, my older daughter was babysitting. I was there doing laundry and I was standing at the end of one of the things and it was over kind of my these washers and dryers. I was our folding clothes as the other clothes were in the washer and dryer. This man and his young daughter, she was only about 9 or 10 at the time came in. They were doing their laundry. So I was standing on the end folding clothes and he had to go around this way to get to these dryers that were over here and he was irritated and mad and angry. I wasn’t really sure what was going on. And then I sat down at the end because my daughter called and so I sat down at the end and I was on the phone and he started slamming the washer and dryer shut and all this stuff. And his daughter’s like, “Dad, what’s wrong?” And just then I was on the phone with my daughter and he like, “I’m so sick and tired of these fucking niggers. One of these days I’m going to shoot one of them. They just come in here and try to take over everything.” And I was like are you kidding me, and I’m the phone with my daughter at the same time and there’s people all over in the place. And there’s this guy who’s sitting over here who’s looking at me. And I’m, “Excuse me, hon, I have to get off of the phone. I’m being threatened here about my life.” And I hung up the phone and he’s like, “I ain’t threatening you.”
JS: And I said, “Excuse me, sir, I heard word you said.” Mind you this man has a southern accent. He sounds like he’s from Louisiana or something like that. And I’m like, “I’ll have you know I heard every word you said. You said you were going to kill one of these fucking niggers because we’re coming in here and taking over things. For your information, my stepfather is 31/32 Nez Perce and this was tribal land.” He looked at me and said, “Well, I’m just crazy.” But prior to that he had literally not just slammed the doors, but also butted his head up against one of the doors. And that was why the little girl had asked. I was so appalled. I went outside and took a picture of license plate number. Nobody in the place said a word, not one word. They looked at me and gave me dirty looks for saying anything, like speaking up or anything. And I was pissed, so I posted it on FaceBook and had a couple people reach out to me and say you know you should really call the police and you should say something just in case he does something like this in the future from a couple of my friends who are police officers and stuff. So I did, I contacted the police and gave them the whatever and nothing really came of it.
JS: But what did happen was that I came back on campus and I was sitting in the Office of Multicultural Affairs and talking about it. I was talking about it with a student about what had happened because part of me was upset, the biggest part of me was upset with myself for even being upset, for being shocked because I’m so used to that being the case. Like if I was out in Troy, Kendrick, or Deary, or Orofino, or Weipe, or Pierce, or something like that of course that’s going to happen. I was shocked because it happened in Moscow. So we were just having this discussion and then the guy left and then a day later he comes back and says, “Jessica, I just wanted to tell you, you know, I do work study the sociology department and there was a student in there who witnessed it, who was at the laundromat and had come to that professor crying upset because he had been through all of these diversity trainings and bystander trainings and trainings to stand up for other people. But he couldn’t say anything and he felt really bad about witnessing it and not being able to speak up and not being able to say something after he had been thought all these trainings that tried to teach him to speak up.
JS: And they asked me if it was okay if he came to talk to me. So he came to talk to me and you know he apologized and we had a conversation. And I let him know that the guy was acting irrational to the point of you never know what could’ve happened and he shouldn’t put himself at risk, but at the same time now that days later he knows how he feels, you know that maybe you should stand up and say something if you know that this is going to haunt you so bad. And so we had a good conversation. The interesting thing is that a few years later the advisor for the BSU, the University brought in one of the leaders for Black Lives Matter, a few years back they brought her in. Before we brought her in we thought that it was important that we educate people so the BSU had a panel discussion and I actually spoke about that experience that I’m telling you about right now. The interesting things was that the guy, the student– I hadn’t seen him since– happened to actually be in the audience and he got up and spoke. He said, “Yeah, just so you know, that was me. I was the one that was there. And it haunts me, I think about it every single day.” So that was one.
IN: Can I have the name of your book, or can you tell me about that experience too?
JS: So the name of the book is called The Pain and Privilege of Mixed Race Identity. It’s an autoethnographic collection and I just wrote one chapter for the book. It’s a collaboration and I think there’s about 14 other contributors. I wrote chapter 9, is what they said it’s going to be. It was published in 2019. My chapter is entitled Sika.
IN: Other people I've interviewed have felt this frustration at having to be the ones that continually have to educate and console white guilt. Do you feel similar to that, have you experienced that?
JS: Uh, yeah. We always have to console, explain. It’s a real issue. I think one of my other frustrations. One of my biggest frustrations is like diverse populations are given this little chunk of the pie and then we're forced to fight each other for this little chunk of the pie. Rather than just being a part of everything. So even though we're supposed to be on the same side there’s a constant battle between us for resources to grow and enhance our communities.
IN: I've also had people mention that they have colleagues that say they don't see color or they're colorblind. Have you experienced anything like this?
JS: Yeah, I've had people say that they're colorblind and then you'll catch them on little things where it’s like obviously you're not colorblind. It doesn't even make sense. I look in the mirror, I look at myself and I see that I'm a brown skinned woman. I see that I'm black, it’s not even a question. So how can you tell me you don't see it? It doesn't even make sense, it’s ridiculous.
IN: Have you noticed any differences in people’s treatment of you since Donald Trump has been in office?
JS: Yeah, not just their treatment of me but their boldness. It was politically incorrect previously, so people hid it, but now it’s not incorrect so people are just flying it out there. And I won't just say people as in strangers. I'm talking about my own family. Remember that my mother is Hungarian and Norwegian, so I have a lot of white family. In my chapter I talk about an incident on FaceBook where at the end my aunt says, “Us white people are going to stick together.” Just straight out. Because I posted a podcast of someone talking about Donald Trump being a racist. We had this whole FaceBook argument, me and my aunt, and then at the end that was her last response.
IN: Thanksgiving is going to be spicy this year.
JS: She won't even come, we won't even invite her.
IN: What do feel you have contributed to your department at UI?
JS: I think that my perspective is different. Mainly because of my upbringing and growing up not only here, but also within multiple ethnicities and my diversity. Because I have learned to maneuver not just within white dominant society and then being black and working within in that community, but also I'm very versatile in working within the indigenous community because that’s where I grew up, but I'm also within the Hispanic community. I thought biological father was not only Black, but Puerto Rican and so based on my indigenous heritage I found that it was important for me to learn Spanish and I was married to a Mexican for about 9 and half years and I was within the Spanish and the Mexican community for a long time.
JS: I think that, yeah, I bring a lot of diversity and background and I think that’s one of things that bugs me so much. The interracial discrimination between the Latino community and the African American, and the African community within the black community, and the Asian community, and all of the others just because I’ve been part of those communities and it’s so prevalent. You can’t tell me that dominant society isn’t racist and discriminatory because we are within our own communities from what we have been enculturated because of dominant society and how we have internalized the homogeneous ideas and views within our own communities.
Jessica_samuels
Jessica Samuels:
Interviewer: Please state your name and your title or role at UI.
JS: My name is Jessica Samuels and was an Academic Success Counselor for student Support Services TRIO for almost 8 years. Currently I am the Assistant Director of the Office of Student Equity and Retention Specialist for the African American Student Center at Washington State University.
IN: What is your ethnicity or race? Do you identify as African-American, African, Caribbean, etc.?
JS: I am Black or mixed, as My mother was Hungarian and Norwegian, and my biological father is Black. Although I grew up being told he was a Black Puerto Rican, even though he is not. However, I was raised, my stepfather that raised me from the time I was 1, was Native American. I am a black woman, but as far as my ethnicity goes, I would say I am mixed.
IN: Where are you from?
JS: I am from Orofino, Idaho.
IN: Did you like growing up there? How big is that?
JS: It’s a very small rural logging town about an hour and a half away from here. I can say there were good aspects and there were negative aspects of growing up where I grew up. I do appreciate that it made me who I am today.
IN: What brought you to UI?
JS: A want to further my education so that I could improve my life for my kids, for community, and for my siblings.
IN: How many children do you have?
JS: I have four children.
IN: How old are they?
JS: My oldest is 19, and I have a son that will be 16 in December. I have a daughter that just turned 13 in July, and I have a 10 year old daughter as well.
IN: Have you had any previous experiences that you feel prepared you for UI?
JS: I think yeah. I think that growing up here in Idaho, that growing up in Orofino prepared me to be here at the University of Idaho. It allows me to… I think it prepared me for the culture shift that a lot of African Americans, or black people, or mixed people would experience when they come here, when they come from out of town or out of this area.
IN: Could you describe that shift?
JS: So, I mean just being the only black person. I'm used to that. I'm not sure what their experience is but I can only speak about my experiences. So coming to the University of Idaho, like, I've heard other people describe it as not being very diverse. For me, although in their perception it’s not very diverse, the University of Idaho and Moscow are very diverse in comparison to where I grew up. I'm used to being the only black person in a classroom because of where I grew up. I'm used to being, having to be that representative of the African-American community. Yeah, I feel like I was prepared to be here just because I'm used to being in this type of environment as far as being the only one. Or one among very few.
IN: Was it a tough transition moving to Moscow since it’s predominantly white?
JS: Actually, like I said in comparison to where I came from it was a more diverse. So no it wasn't a tough transition in that aspect.
IN: Was it easier then?
JS: I wouldn't necessarily say it was easy either. I came here as– there were parts of it that were easy and parts of it that weren't. When I came here I was a nontraditional student.
IN: What’s that mean?
JS: So I came here and started my Bachelor’s degree when I was 28 years old. I was married at the time, my oldest daughter was 18 months old when I started school. So that’s what a nontraditional student is. A traditional student is someone who just graduated from high school, has no spouse, has no children, or anything like that. I was transitioning into college after having been out of school for over 10 years. So there was a transition, but as far as transitioning to Moscow I didn't have the culture shock. Maybe a culture shock a in my economic background or a culture shock as in having to go to school.
JS: But there wasn't a culture shock as in all of the sudden I'm the only black person. Or a culture shock as in getting accustomed to the University of Idaho, like the physical. I knew where things were and stuff. Because when I was in high school and in junior high, I was introduced to the University of Idaho as an upward bound student. So I attended summer school here throughout high school. I began after my eighth grade year. I went here for many years. And I also lived in Moscow for a short time when I was 23. My friends went to college, and I worked in Lewiston as a hairdresser.
IN: Do you feel like you'll stay in this community for a long time? Why or why not?
JS: I've been here for a long time. So, I'm 47 years old and I've been in Moscow specifically since I started my Bachelors degree in 2004. So, I've been here for about 18 years already. I've lived in Idaho my entire life. So as far as where my career will take me in the future, I might leave, but as far as being a Idaho person I will always be from here. My family lives here, my siblings are all here, my nieces and nephews are all here, my family is here. I don't see myself leaving anytime soon. But if it happens, it could happen. Have you built any strong relationships with any other black people or faculty at UI?
JS: Yes, I have. I'm very close with the Freemans. I'm also very to a lot of people in the African community here. I'm the co-advisor for the Black Student Union.
IN: Have you had positive experiences related to your race at UI?
JS: Yeah, I would say that in my undergraduate years, so at the time when I came the Black Student Union wasn't established. I feel like that as we established the BSU back then, I had a lot of positive growth. I had a lot of good experience. I made a lot of friends that I still keep in contact with, some of them. I know that there was a BSU in the 60s and 70s because I did a little bit of research, but as to when we reestablished, yeah it was in 2004 or 2005. I know we won Student Group of the Year in about 2004 or 05 or 06. I know we did a great big event for Rosa Parks Memorial Celebration, that’s probably something in the Argonaut about that. There should be a few articles related to that from 2005 to 2009.
IN: Have you had negative experiences related to your race at UI?
JS: Oh, yes! So I just recently wrote a chapter on mixed race identity and within that I talk about a specific experience that I had here on campus as far as just working with colleagues and that was one. But I think my most negative experience was off campus, but it did affect a student on campus. It was when I first started working as an employee, it would've been in the spring semester of 2014. At the time I was a temporary staff in the Office of Multicultural Affairs as the secretary. I had just graduated with my Master’s degree. My children and I had to move off campus because we had been living in family housing from the time we had moved here from 2004 to the time that I graduated in 2013. I had a little bit of a break–you know, graduating– and then I had to try and find a job. It wasn’t until December that I actually landed the temporary position in the Office of Multicultural Affairs. We had moved into some section 8 housing and it didn't allow for me to take my washer and dryer. There was a little laudrying mat within our apartment complex but the little hoodlum kids around the area had been peeing in the washers and dryers and stuff so I took mine and my four children’s clothes down to the laundromat, down here.
JS: The Sudzee, it’s right down here across the street from Taj’s. I had left my children at home, my older daughter was babysitting. I was there doing laundry and I was standing at the end of one of the things and it was over kind of my these washers and dryers. I was our folding clothes as the other clothes were in the washer and dryer. This man and his young daughter, she was only about 9 or 10 at the time came in. They were doing their laundry. So I was standing on the end folding clothes and he had to go around this way to get to these dryers that were over here and he was irritated and mad and angry. I wasn’t really sure what was going on. And then I sat down at the end because my daughter called and so I sat down at the end and I was on the phone and he started slamming the washer and dryer shut and all this stuff. And his daughter’s like, “Dad, what’s wrong?” And just then I was on the phone with my daughter and he like, “I’m so sick and tired of these fucking niggers. One of these days I’m going to shoot one of them. They just come in here and try to take over everything.” And I was like are you kidding me, and I’m the phone with my daughter at the same time and there’s people all over in the place. And there’s this guy who’s sitting over here who’s looking at me. And I’m, “Excuse me, hon, I have to get off of the phone. I’m being threatened here about my life.” And I hung up the phone and he’s like, “I ain’t threatening you.”
JS: And I said, “Excuse me, sir, I heard word you said.” Mind you this man has a southern accent. He sounds like he’s from Louisiana or something like that. And I’m like, “I’ll have you know I heard every word you said. You said you were going to kill one of these fucking niggers because we’re coming in here and taking over things. For your information, my stepfather is 31/32 Nez Perce and this was tribal land.” He looked at me and said, “Well, I’m just crazy.” But prior to that he had literally not just slammed the doors, but also butted his head up against one of the doors. And that was why the little girl had asked. I was so appalled. I went outside and took a picture of license plate number. Nobody in the place said a word, not one word. They looked at me and gave me dirty looks for saying anything, like speaking up or anything. And I was pissed, so I posted it on FaceBook and had a couple people reach out to me and say you know you should really call the police and you should say something just in case he does something like this in the future from a couple of my friends who are police officers and stuff. So I did, I contacted the police and gave them the whatever and nothing really came of it.
JS: But what did happen was that I came back on campus and I was sitting in the Office of Multicultural Affairs and talking about it. I was talking about it with a student about what had happened because part of me was upset, the biggest part of me was upset with myself for even being upset, for being shocked because I’m so used to that being the case. Like if I was out in Troy, Kendrick, or Deary, or Orofino, or Weipe, or Pierce, or something like that of course that’s going to happen. I was shocked because it happened in Moscow. So we were just having this discussion and then the guy left and then a day later he comes back and says, “Jessica, I just wanted to tell you, you know, I do work study the sociology department and there was a student in there who witnessed it, who was at the laundromat and had come to that professor crying upset because he had been through all of these diversity trainings and bystander trainings and trainings to stand up for other people. But he couldn’t say anything and he felt really bad about witnessing it and not being able to speak up and not being able to say something after he had been thought all these trainings that tried to teach him to speak up.
JS: And they asked me if it was okay if he came to talk to me. So he came to talk to me and you know he apologized and we had a conversation. And I let him know that the guy was acting irrational to the point of you never know what could’ve happened and he shouldn’t put himself at risk, but at the same time now that days later he knows how he feels, you know that maybe you should stand up and say something if you know that this is going to haunt you so bad. And so we had a good conversation. The interesting thing is that a few years later the advisor for the BSU, the University brought in one of the leaders for Black Lives Matter, a few years back they brought her in. Before we brought her in we thought that it was important that we educate people so the BSU had a panel discussion and I actually spoke about that experience that I’m telling you about right now. The interesting things was that the guy, the student– I hadn’t seen him since– happened to actually be in the audience and he got up and spoke. He said, “Yeah, just so you know, that was me. I was the one that was there. And it haunts me, I think about it every single day.” So that was one.
IN: Can I have the name of your book, or can you tell me about that experience too?
JS: So the name of the book is called The Pain and Privilege of Mixed Race Identity. It’s an autoethnographic collection and I just wrote one chapter for the book. It’s a collaboration and I think there’s about 14 other contributors. I wrote chapter 9, is what they said it’s going to be. It was published in 2019. My chapter is entitled Sika.
IN: Other people I've interviewed have felt this frustration at having to be the ones that continually have to educate and console white guilt. Do you feel similar to that, have you experienced that?
JS: Uh, yeah. We always have to console, explain. It’s a real issue. I think one of my other frustrations. One of my biggest frustrations is like diverse populations are given this little chunk of the pie and then we're forced to fight each other for this little chunk of the pie. Rather than just being a part of everything. So even though we're supposed to be on the same side there’s a constant battle between us for resources to grow and enhance our communities.
IN: I've also had people mention that they have colleagues that say they don't see color or they're colorblind. Have you experienced anything like this?
JS: Yeah, I've had people say that they're colorblind and then you'll catch them on little things where it’s like obviously you're not colorblind. It doesn't even make sense. I look in the mirror, I look at myself and I see that I'm a brown skinned woman. I see that I'm black, it’s not even a question. So how can you tell me you don't see it? It doesn't even make sense, it’s ridiculous.
IN: Have you noticed any differences in people’s treatment of you since Donald Trump has been in office?
JS: Yeah, not just their treatment of me but their boldness. It was politically incorrect previously, so people hid it, but now it’s not incorrect so people are just flying it out there. And I won't just say people as in strangers. I'm talking about my own family. Remember that my mother is Hungarian and Norwegian, so I have a lot of white family. In my chapter I talk about an incident on FaceBook where at the end my aunt says, “Us white people are going to stick together.” Just straight out. Because I posted a podcast of someone talking about Donald Trump being a racist. We had this whole FaceBook argument, me and my aunt, and then at the end that was her last response.
IN: Thanksgiving is going to be spicy this year.
JS: She won't even come, we won't even invite her.
IN: What do feel you have contributed to your department at UI?
JS: I think that my perspective is different. Mainly because of my upbringing and growing up not only here, but also within multiple ethnicities and my diversity. Because I have learned to maneuver not just within white dominant society and then being black and working within in that community, but also I'm very versatile in working within the indigenous community because that’s where I grew up, but I'm also within the Hispanic community. I thought biological father was not only Black, but Puerto Rican and so based on my indigenous heritage I found that it was important for me to learn Spanish and I was married to a Mexican for about 9 and half years and I was within the Spanish and the Mexican community for a long time.
JS: I think that, yeah, I bring a lot of diversity and background and I think that’s one of things that bugs me so much. The interracial discrimination between the Latino community and the African American, and the African community within the black community, and the Asian community, and all of the others just because I’ve been part of those communities and it’s so prevalent. You can’t tell me that dominant society isn’t racist and discriminatory because we are within our own communities from what we have been enculturated because of dominant society and how we have internalized the homogeneous ideas and views within our own communities.
Kodjotse_afatchao
Kodjotse Afatchao:
Interviewer: Please state your name and your title or role at UI.
KA: Official name Kodjotse Afatchao, but I’m known as Ro Afatchao or Romuald Afatchao. I’m a Clinical Professor and I’m Associate Director of the Martin Institute and program of International Studies.
IN: What is your ethnicity or race? Do you identify as African-American, African, Caribbean, etc.?
KA: I'm an African American. African dash American. I'm an African originally, but now I'm a US citizen, so that’s how I identify. African-American, so either work for me.
IN: Where are you from?
KA: I'm originally from Togo, a small country in West Africa.
IN: What brought you to UI?
KA: I came here in 2001 to go to grad school. I actually got my doctorate from UI. Then after I got a job and I stayed.
IN: Have you had any previous experiences that you feel prepared you for UI?
KA: Yes and no. So the yes part is that before coming here I had some experience in France, which is, although over there you have a lot of black folks for sure. Nothing could really prepare you for this experience. In fact, I had family members who basically tried to prevent me from coming to Idaho in early 2000 because they just had that incident in northern Idaho with the Aryan Nations.
KA: So when I came to the United States my first spot that I landed was in Philadelphia. I had a cousin there at that time. I came there even though I was coming to Idaho because I got admission for Idaho; so I was coming for Idaho. I spent two weeks with my cousin in Philadelphia and they told me how bad it was here, and people were very scared for me. I didn't know what I was getting into. I was really positively surprised because when I got into town, Moscow is like this bubble. So, I think that’s why I stayed after all these years. The community is great.
IN: Was it a tough transition moving to Moscow since it’s predominantly white?
KA: Of course. My experience was even worse than that. Nervous wouldn't even begin to describe it because with all that in mind, people telling me how bad it was here, and then my cousin put me onto Greyhound bus to make the three day trip here and for some reason, I don't even know if he didn't have any idea about how distance time works, how far Idaho was. He told me it would take six hours to get here.
KA: I left Philadelphia at 6pm on a Sunday and I didn’t get here until Wednesday at 2pm. So, when I came here, I was tired, you name it. I quote on quote lost my bag in Billings, Montana at the bus station there. I had a buddy on the bus, we met on the bus, we both checked a locker at the bus station to lock our bag before we went into town to go eat. But then this guy had the key and disappeared on me. Then I came here without my bag. The next day he came to the hotel because I told him the hotel I was going to be staying at and he dropped the bag off.
IN: Do you feel like you'll stay in this community for a long time? Why or why not?
KA: Okay, so, yes and maybe not. So yes because I love the community. My son was born here, my wife likes this community, my wife is from Togo as well, but she doesn't want to go anywhere but here. She came, she joined me a year and a half after I got here. With that in mind, my family has their roots here now. My son, all he knows is that this is home for him. He’s 14 now. He started everything, all of his friends are here, everything for him is here. When we travel back home these days, he doesn't want to go. For him it’s not home, so I have that. I've started engaging folks over there, as well. I travel there a lot there now.
KA: I have a sort of second life there, I have a nonprofit that we created here, but it’s functional over there. We have the office and the workers are all over there. I’ve been doing the back and forth a lot lately. Part of me is saying it’s maybe time to start thinking about maybe doing the transition. I call it transition for now because it’s not going to just be easy for me leave today and that’s it. It’s going to be gradual. We own a house here, so at least we will wait until my son is in college. I don’t plan on going anywhere else, or even if I go I will still have another home here.
IN: Do you think your son will go to UI?
KA: I hope so because if he does go here and I'm still here, that’s cheaper for me. You don't want to spend too much on the undergraduate. You can get a good experience as an undergrad for an affordable cost, then you can save the money later on to go to grad school.
IN: Have you built any strong relationships with any other black people or faculty at UI?
KA: Yeah, so, as you know we are not that many around here. We all know each other, we socialize, we do stuff together. In fact, Sydney and his family were at my house the other day for my wife’s birthday party. We know each other. Of course, right now I think we have way more than we used to have. I remember when I first came here you barely see any black faculty at all. I knew two at that time and one of them left was at law school. This was like 2004. There was this black faculty member, but she left after a year because she didn't feel welcome here at all. It was a tough experience for her, and she left.
KA: Then there was Wudneh Admassu from chemical engineering, and he’s been here for a long time. Those were the two really that I knew of then. By the time I joined this program Mark Edwards was the Associate or Assistant Provost for Diversity, he was a black guy. I heard he passed last year. He left also, before he passed. Then nothing for a while, then there was a Kenyan guy who was recruited by the College of Ag, then the College of Science recruited, what is his name? He’s in biology and WWAMI, Onesmo.
KA: Onesmo and his wife came and at that time another colleague of mine, she did her doctorate here, she was from Tanzania, she got her postdoc also from the university. The population started to increase here a little bit. The Associate Dean of Students who left: Hassel. Raymond Dixon from College of Education and then of course Sydney and his wife came around. Then a few more staff came around here and there. It’s increasing and it’s more representative, it’s getting there, even though we're not there yet. I joke about it because whenever I sub on a committee, I sub as a token diversity person. I end up serving on so many committees. But it’s good to have other folks now.
IN: Have you had positive experiences related to your race at UI?
KA: Yeah, for the most part. The thing about USA in general is that people usually don't tell you what they think. Unless really, the people are really mean, like jerks. My experience with French, for example, the French there’s nothing they won't tell you, “It’s nothing personal.” They will just say it, that’s how the culture works there. The feedback is really harsh there, and Americans think it’s really harsh. If they don't like you, they don't like you, they're not going to pretend. In the USA, you never know. To go back to the experience, most of my engagement here, professional relations and private relations have been very positive.
KA: Of course, nothing is perfect. Once in a while people remind you that you don’t really belong. Stuff like that happens from time to time, but that’s not the dominant part of my experience. The dominant part of my experience is mostly positive actually. In fact, to the point where I actually call it positive racism. When people are overly nice to you, they don’t want to offend you. Sometimes it’s awkward, really. People come to you and start talking to you about football, like I will know anything about football. All of those stuff, people are trying really hard.
IN: Have you had negative experiences related to your race at UI?
KA: Yeah, like I said, you always have those but, I don’t let them define me. Some of those I try not to remember them as well because if you remember them they will spoil your experience in general. Of course, I've had stuff at the stores where people will follow you and all kind of stuff like that. At one point we were point blank accused at WinCo at one time of stealing candy. Yeah, it was an interesting experience. I'm like, candy? Anyway, then you go to Walmart, and you buy stuff for ten dollars, you pay with your debit card, and somebody asks you to see your ID. Somebody in front of you paid for a hundred dollars and no one asks to see their ID. I'm used to those.
KA: I understand little stuff like when you’re crossing the road cars don’t stop. People don’t realize that. Cars don’t stop for us. If you make a mistake and you jumped in to cross, you’re screwed. Whenever I’m crossing road at the crossroad, I don’t assume that the car is going to stop for me. I won’t walk until they stop both ways before I cross. Most cars don’t stop. Little stuff like you're walking on the street, especially women, they see you on the other side and their attitude change. They start to walking like this. Those stuff people don't even realize. Even well-meaning people, they don’t even realize. I’ve seen it so much that it’s really amusing whenever I see that happen. You are walking on the sidewalk and then maybe 20-50 yards from you and then they see you. All of the sudden they change side, or you can see the attitude change, hand in the pocket, the posture would change. I’m used to it.
IN: Have you noticed any differences in people’s treatment of you since Donald Trump has been in office?
KA: Don’t get me started. It’s both ways. I won't just say it’s people treatment of me alone, but it’s also my treatment of people who I believe voted for Trump. I've never done anything like this before. I told anybody who’s my friend, if I find out you voted for Trump we can't be friends. It’s not about Republican or Democrat stuff. I never vote party line, I don't belong to any party, I'm independent. During elections, I don't vote for Republicans or Democrats, no, I vote for who is qualified. For me Trump represents something that is a threat to my being, a threat to my family. That’s how I see it. That’s how I see it.
KA: So, if you say you are my friend or you’re a good colleague of mine and you go through all that stuff and you voted for him. Good for you, but make damn sure that I don’t find out. I’m up front with them. I tell them. It’s freedom of speech. They have the right to vote for whom they want to, and I have the right to not associate myself with people I believe have different values. Values that are threat to my way of life, threats to my physical being, that’s what I’m saying. It gives more of a voice to a lot of folks now. People yelling stuff. That didn’t used to happen in Moscow, just in the last year. Derogatory words and stuff like that.
KA: You go to the store, and you see their behavior… a lot of things have changed. It’s unfortunate because this country is better than that. Yeah, I have seen a lot of changes and I’ve dumped a bunch of friends. Quote and quote friends. I don’t regret it because I don’t know how you can pretend to be a friend of somebody and do something that is going to be a threat to that person. I will never do it to anybody. It’s not politics for me. There are a bunch of other Republican candidates that have business connections as well.
IN: What do feel you have contributed to your department at UI?
KA: Let me joke about this because, let me start with a joke. My boss, the head of the department here, he used to joke about how before I joined the department they always get crushed on diversity, then all the sudden I jumped into the department. They became a model department. There was only two of us. Then all of the sudden I'm African and I jump in. I check a lot of boxes. International, black, African-American, you name it. You can check a lot of boxes. It’s the reality that since I came here, because of the way the situation was I knew I was in a minority situation. I was one of the first people to join the diversity committee as a student in 2004. I’ve been a part of that committee since then. A lot of the things that happened like we had a diversity statement. A bunch of stuff that got included in the strategic plan for diversity and inclusion, not just black folks.
KA: I’ve been a part of those. In my department specifically, I believe the fact that I’ve had so many diverse experiences not just as a black person, but intellectual experiences in different countries. I’ve studied in four different countries. I think just the exposure and the knowledge that I bring to here can help a lot of students. Intellectually, I collaborate a lot across the university, not just my department. I collaborate with basically all departments except maybe dance. College of Music, College of Law, College of Science, College of Ag, College of Natural Resources, all kind of stuff. So, I’ve done a bunch of things because of my background. I have a law degree before coming here and doing my PhD in Environmental Science. I have a connection with folks in College of Natural Resources. I’ve done stuff with various student clubs. I’ve done stuff with engineers, with Engineers Without Borders club at UI. I’ve done stuff with a lot of folks, so, because of that diversity of background, diversity my academic background. I think I could say I’ve brought a little bit of diverse thinking and the way I get new student as well is something that is not common to a lot of folks.
KA: My department actually has this culture of open office, office rooms so that students can come talk to us and there aren’t any barriers. They don’t call me Dr. Afatchao, they call me Ro. Everybody calls me Ro. That experience alone makes sure to give more to the students. When they have questions, they can talk to me and a lot of people and that’s how we do business in the department. I believe that the experiences that I’ve have had contributed to me giving back to all kinds of things at the university. That’s why I said a while ago that I’ve served on so many committees. Of course, maybe their thinking might be because they want somebody with diverse background, but I believe that by having me on the committee gives other views that would not have presented and not just because I’m black, because I could check so many boxes, and because of my intellectual abilities I could see stuff other people couldn't see. I think I’ve contributed a lot for the little amount of time I’ve spent here. 18 years altogether so far. 17 going on 18. One thing that I didn’t tell you is that 2001 bus ride, I didn’t speak any English. I learned my English here. I came from a French system. The bus ride was so traumatic for me without the language.
IN: Are there any other black people that have left the institution that I should know about that would be helpful to this project?
KA: It’s interesting to know that the biggest college at UI, my college, has only one black guy, me.
IN: Is there anything I should have asked you?
KA: Maybe one of the things that has been at the back of my mind, lately. It’s the fact that most of the time, people don't give us respect. The respect that I'm talking about is like because of Affirmative Action people always see us as products of Affirmative Action. All people see you and they just have assumptions and sometimes it’s really annoying if you don't get that respect that you think you deserve. For me it’s not just about being black at all. Sometimes it’s just about being African. Once I open my mouth and I start talking, people know I'm not from here. They ask me a question, “Where are you originally from?”
KA: And I tell them Togo, then because when I way Togo most people here Tonga and they start talking about the Pacific and all that, but I’m West African. Then discrimination comes from there as well, where people all kind of prejudices they have, their fantasies and prejudices they have about Africa. That’s how they see us, like uncivilized. People who haven’t seen real civilization until they got here and all that stuff. But all of that stuff comes out of a place of ignorance. That is more, I think in Moscow and at the university if I may talk about discrimination, that’s the one that I’ve felt the most. That I’ve actually caught it.
KA: Believe it or not, I've felt discrimination from fellow African-Americans. “Yes, you're not really African-American and so you don't have the same experience we have.” Yes, I may not have had the same experience, but guess what? When the racists are targeting us, they don't care if I'm from Africa or not. I call it double whammy where you get discriminated against because of some white folk who just doesn't like black people or you get discriminated against from some African-American who believes you're here to take opportunities away from them. It's fascinating stuff to manage.
IN: I spoke with someone this morning who mentioned something similar. She said that she felt like she had to defend her position even though they were all working in the same place.
KA: To the point, especially, when it comes to the other side of the equation of the Affirmative Action one. At one point I got so upset I went to my boss, I wanted to know if my hiring was Affirmative Action. He told me he won't talk to me about it, instead he'll send me to talk to one of the finalist for the position, which I didn't know before. I actually went to the person and asked them how they felt when I got the job and they didn't.
KA: She said that when she saw my qualifications, she felt embarrassed to be also a candidate for the position. So, that gave me a little bit of peace of mind, knowing that I didn't get a position just because. I know that wouldn't happen here, but that was the perception, that’s why I asked. There are a lot of genuine folks around here that don't care about where you come from. Thankfully we have a lot more of those folks than the others.
IN: Have you found any support structure within the institution for faculty and staff of color?
KA: Not anymore. The university used to put on a social (for faculty of color) and we'd all meet each other and when there’s a new person. We don't have that anymore?
IN: Why not?
KA: I don’t know.
IN: Would you like to see it brought back?
KA: You know, Michael Satz was the one doing that alongside Angelique Eaglewoman, she was Native American. Since they left, those things need a little bit of money to bring together, they need support. The Law School was supporting that, and since they left no other program picked that up. So all of the sudden we don't have that anymore. So the last one we went to before Angelique Eaglewoman left the university, we were really surprised because at the event we'll usually have the President and the Provost and a lot of Deans because they also wanted to meet. The last one we went to, none of the higher ups showed up and we all noticed that. We were like, “Wow.”
IN: Why hasn't any other college or program picked it up?
KA: I don’t know. Law was doing it because the genuinely wanted to invest the resources in order to retain the diverse faculty. Most colleges don't have diverse faculty, at least people that look like me. If you go to College of Natural Resources, they're all Caucasian. Even if they're not from here they're all from Italy or France. Science you have Onesmo, Wudneh is down there, there’s me here, Sydney and Raymond Dixon over there. You would think it’s a no brainer, but nobody is working on that.
Lynda_freeman
Lynda Freeman:
Interviewer: Please state your name and your title or role at UI.
LM: Lynda Freeman and I am the Academic Support Specialist for the WWAMI Medical Education Program and I'm also a clinical faculty member. Clinical Assistant Faculty.
IN: What is your ethnicity or race? Do you identify as African American, African, Caribbean, etc.?
LM: I identify as African American.
IN: Where are you from?
LM: Atlanta, Georgia.
IN: What brought you to UI?
LM: Jobs. So, my husband was applying for faculty positions and I had just finished my Doctorate and UI made him an offer. We sent my CV and ended up getting with WWAMI, so we moved out here.
IN: Have you had any previous experiences that you feel prepared you for UI?
LM: Yeah, I went to school at a predominantly white school, probably kindergarten through sixth grade so being around white people wasn't foreign to me. This is probably the whitest space I've ever been in.
IN: Was it a tough transition moving to Moscow since it’s predominantly white?
LM: Not because it’s the whitest space. It was tough because of the distance from family. My close family. They all still live in Georgia.
IN: Were you nervous to move here or about being here since it’s called the South of the North?
LM: I didn't know that before I got here. I heard about Coeur d’Alene so I didn't want to visit Coeur d'Alene. So that part didn't make me nervous because eventually I ended up going because my husband’s likes going up there and it can be okay. He talked to someone who used to live here who was African American who was like, “Oh yeah, we go there just to get away, you know, and it’s fine.”
LM: So, I didn't really realize… that’s the first time I had heard that term and yeah. I definitely am aware of my surroundings and protective of my husband. Especially in light of what’s going on across the nation. Knowing that I am in this space and that even though that white supremacist camp is shut down, you know, people don't just disappear into thin air. So, I'm definitely aware of that.
IN: Do you feel like you'll stay in this community for a long time? Why or why not?
LM: No, because I'm very close to my family and this distance is very tough and they're not going to move to Idaho. I tried.
IN: Do you like living here? If they did move to Idaho, would you stay? Would you want them to move here?
LM: I think Moscow is a good place. I don't think anywhere outside of Moscow I'm comfortable. So, even now, the last couple of times we've visited Coeur d’Alene you can feel the, I guess the racial tension. There’s been a shift, especially with the new administration (Trump Presidency). The current president we have, there’s been a shift and it’s not comfortable and it’s not pleasant. I think it’s a beautiful place, but I don't know if long term.
IN: Have you built any strong relationships with any other black people or faculty at UI?
LM: Yes, a couple. We're so spread out, there’s not that many. But there are a couple of faculty and staff that I've connected with.
IN: Have you had positive experiences related to your race at UI?
LM: Yes. So, I'll use the example of two or three weeks ago, I gave a lecture about my culture in an anthropology class. That was a great opportunity to share with people about who I am and students submitted questions they would like answered.
IN: Did you get any good ones?
LM: Yeah, I think one of the best ones was What is your opinion on the national anthem. So that one really made me think and do my research and I present just like the facts. So, I was like yeah I used to love my national anthem. And then this happened with Colin Kaepernick and so that made me look at it. So, I heard something about the third verse referring to slaves, is that true. And I pulled up the lyrics and yeah, it is true. Then people are like they weren't talking about African American slaves, this an argument. Like okay. Even if it that is true, the person that wrote this song was a slave owner who built his wealth on the backs of slaves.
LM: So when he wrote “The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave”, I don’t think he was talking about me. Just being able to explain that and to probably students that hadn’t heard that before. So, it’s been a great experience. Some people are aware of the climate we live in and they do check in, just to you know, when they see racist things happen, they ask like, “Hey, are you okay? I know this is probably affecting you.” There’s probably one or two people on campus that do that regularly. So I appreciate that.
IN: Have you had negative experiences related to your race at UI?
LM: There was… you know the Commons where you're not supposed to go all the way down? You're not supposed to park there, but I was picking up my husband one night from the Commons. There was a line of cars there, so I just went and parked there. And actually, I didn't see that you weren't supposed to drive down there. We had only been here a few months, maybe, but anyway. So, there’s a police car and they were coming up while I was parked. They passed all these cars, then the police officer looked over and saw me, made a U-turn, pulled behind me, turned the lights on, everything.
IN: Are there people in all the other cars?
LM: Yeah, a row of white people in parked cars. They get to my car, make a U-turn, and literally did the whole deal. This is the first time I've ever been stopped, like ever. I've gotten parking tickets before and that kind of thing, but this is the first kind of thing where I'm like moving like okay. So, the officer gets out of the car and tells me that I'm not supposed to be parked here. And I was like I didn't realize that, because I really didn't see the sign. And he was oh you didn't, and I was yeah, I didn’t. Then they proceeded to ask for my license and registration, so I went to the mode that if okay if something pops off, I'll deal with it in court, like get me home safe, that’s my whole thing.
LM: So, I told him, “I’m faculty here and my husband is faculty. I’m just waiting to pick him up.” And the officer is like very dismissive. I showed him my UI ID that said faculty on it, and they were like I don’t need that. Then they took my license and registration and ran it. When they came back, they were like, “You know, you’re not supposed to park here.” They were nice. It was almost like they were waiting to find something, they thought they were going to find something, but I have a clean record. But it was just so blatant. They let me go with a warning, whatever. And then there was a car, so I went down and turned around, so as I was turning around there was another car that came and parked and the same officer just asked the person to roll down their window and told them, “You know, you can’t park here,” and then let them go. So that’s a nice example.
IN: Have you noticed any differences in people’s treatment of you since Donald Trump has been in office?
LM: Yes. So, going back to the Coeur d’Alene example more stares and they're not friendly. So, there’s a difference between curious and… So, I'm used to being like the only chocolate drop in the room so people are going to look, right? But then there is a look where it’s not a friendly or curious or kind look either. So, you can feel, you can literally feel the difference. So, yeah, I've noticed that. Even, it’s probably been a month ago, I went to WinCo one evening and there’s someone wearing a confederate flag hoodie. The whole hoodie was a confederate flag. And I was like, “Okay, I just want to get to my car.” As I was walking out this white lady walked by the guy and said really loudly, “Oh, I love your hoodie.” Just kind of like, rubbed it in. I think people feel more comfortable now, doing that kind of thing.
IN: What do feel you have contributed to your department at UI?
LM: So, my role is new to this department. It’s new, so I think I've added in that way. Another way I've added, because of being the only person of color I think in this office I have a chance to provide— I'm asked to provide input on topics related to diversity or cultural sensitivity. And work without students who maybe are under represented ethnically. And serve as what they call a Champion. So students who may have issues or experience discrimination, they have an outlet to voice those concerns and I try to advocate for them in that way. I guess that’s something new to my department and it’s a role that I embrace.
LM: It’s not one that I was looking to take on, but when you are a minority people look to you as the… but I’m not an expert. There are people that train and go to school, I just happen to be black. I think overall it’s been good. If it’s too much I just step back, like it’s just too much. So I think I’ve contributed in that way and just provide an honest voice like yeah, this is racist or this could be perceived racist. Or you may need to look at how we approach this.
IN: Some of the other people I've interviewed have expressed an annoyance or frustration at having to be the representative or guide to white people to teach them what it good and what is bad when they should just figure it out.
LM: Yes and no. So I feel like if you're sincere and want to learn I don't mind sharing. At the same time there’s plenty of books and literature and if you're concerned and want to know there’s resources there for you to read. So, there’s a course that I lead and one of the sessions we had was on white fragility. That was really interesting. So you have students who were like, “Man.” They read the articles and were like, “I didn't like this,” but then it’s like, “Oh, I'm acting that way.”
LM: It’s interesting, but then you have other people commenting, this could be faculty too, that are like, “Cultural appropriation, people are mad because we eat pizza and that cultural…” you and they kind of minimize, minimalized it. You could see they center themselves, so you’re acting out exactly what we’re talking about. I’m not going to make you feel less guilty, but I think my personality is the type that I don’t want you to feel bad, but at the same time I want to be honest.
IN: Kind of like I don't want you to feel bad, but at the same time your behavior is problematic.
LM: I think, again I don't mind sharing and teaching, but it’s the people that are willing to. Even here, I've had to tell people, “Hey, don't touch my hair. I don't like it when you touch my hair.” It seems like common sense. Some people would think that, but some people feel comfortable doing that. But don't do that. And they don't even think about, but if it was the reverse and I came and start stroking your hair, you're going to be like what are you doing. So, there’s teaching moments I guess. There are teaching moments when I don't want to teach. I don’t. I shouldn't have to spend my time and energy, in addition to my regular job, to deal with this.
IN: A few of the other people I've interviewed have mentioned something about their colleagues saying they're colorblind and don't see race.
LM: I've been told that I'm colorblind and I'm like, “Well, hmm, I'm black so.” It’s like saying you don't see that part of me and that’s a big part of me, of my identity. So, I've heard that and I think, I don’t know. People are, I think some people are just ignorant. I've heard comments about me that I know if it was a white man or a white woman it wouldn't have been said. I mean that’s here in the department. It’s interesting being black and navigating an extremely white space with people who haven't interacted with black people or people of color on a regular basis.
Onesmo_balemba
Onesmo Balemba:
Interviewer: Please state your name and your title or role at UI.
OB: Which you know, right? Onesmo Balemba. I’m faculty here in the department of Biological Sciences (Biology) and in Idaho WWAMI medical education program. So, I teach in the medical school for this university. So, Associate Professor, is the official title. I am the Director for the Optical Imaging Center, which is a center with microscopes and other things to help strengthen research in biology and other disciplines. We'll get to other things later on.
IN: What is your ethnicity or race? Do you identify as African-American, African, Caribbean, etc.?
OB: Ethnicity and race? Well, I'm African. You may not know my ethnic group because it’s such a small place in the world. My tribe is called Wanyambo and we are on the west side of Lake Victoria. We could be around 1,000,000 people or a little more.
IN: Where are you from?
OB: I’m from Tanzania. Do you want to know when I came here? Yeah. I came here in the United States of America in 2002. Have you been teaching here that whole time? No, I was hired as a postdoc, so it was way after my PhD. I went to the University of Wyoming. I stayed there for one year. Then I moved to the University of Vermont and I lived there for five years. So after a six year duration of post-doc, I decided it was time to do something else. Though looking for different opportunities, I came here. How long have you been teaching here? Ten years.
IN: What brought you to UI? Have you had any previous experiences that you feel prepared you for UI?
OB: Yeah, first you can see I'm a very old person. I began teaching in 1986, but not in college. It was in a high school. And then I was employed to teach in college in 1992, August. I taught at Sokoine University of Agriculture, in the department of Veterinary Anatomy (College of Veterinary Medicine) for about twelve years before coming to America.
IN: Was it a tough transition moving to Moscow since it’s predominantly white?
OB: It wasn't that tough and things happen for reasons because when I came here to interview for a position, people Vermont asked me whether I knew where I was going. They were more concerned than me. Idaho doesn't have a good reputation on the outside. People consider Idaho to be a redneck state, and I don't know what that means, and so people know that in the US. But I came here to interview and this single incident that changed my attitude about Idaho were two things. When the search committee called me to give me the first interview they were friendly, they were laughing, they were making jokes, they were happy.
OB: So I said I would just go find out. Then, after I arrived here I saw people were friendly and everyone was just nice to me. That was encouraging. And lastly, I stayed at Best Western and one evening after the interview, I think maybe around 6:30 I decided to go for a walk. As I was walking near WinCo, I saw a black girl walking. I looked at this girl and she looked at me. I decided to say Hello and she said Hello to me. I stood and asked her a few questions because I was very surprised to see another black person here and so I said to myself that if a person of color survives here, then I can survive.
OB: But that was a coincidence that helped me to strengthen my belief that I could live here. What kind of questions did you ask her? I don't precisely remember all the things. But she was from Kenya and we started a conversation in Swahili and everything changed. I asked what she was doing and she was a Master student somewhere in Agriculture.
IN: Were you nervous to move here or about being here since it’s called the South of the North? Do you feel like you'll stay in this community for a long time? Why or why not?
OB: So far I like being here. I like Moscow. People in the University and people in Moscow are good, good people. It’s a nice place to raise a family, safe and friendly. I've never encountered any issues since I moved here. The department likes me, WWAMI likes me, the best of Washington likes me. Everyone is supportive. That is what keeps me here, otherwise I would've left.
IN: Did you bring family with you?
OB: Yes, my wife works for the College of Natural Resources. Her name is Dorah Mtui.
IN: Have you built any strong relationships with any other black people or faculty at UI?
OB: People come and go. So sometimes you have relationship with people and then they leave. I tend to work too much “I leave it at work”, so I don't socialize very much. I have very good relationship with Mr. John Paul from Rwanda and a wife Dr. Jacqueline Maxmillian from Tanzania as well as Dr. Romuald Afatchao, a professor at U of I and his family. Who else, I mean, I don't really have many very close friends. I don't have any close friend who is African-American, but there’s several of them and we socialize and get together, but a close friend is more different than how I would consider just a friend. And two, I think it’s just because we aren't in same disciplines, and we don't meet very often. There has to be something uniting you. Ah, you have just reminded me. There’s a group of African-Americans, we are very close because our kids play together, especially basketball. So, we see each other very often, but we aren't very close friends.
IN: Have you had positive experiences related to your race at UI?
OB: I have had positive experiences perhaps not because of my race but rather because of who I am as person and an expert in my fields. I don't think I have been favored because of who I am. I think this is a work-based relationship. Everything that comes to you, you have to earn it. No favors because of my color. I don't think I have benefited because of my color.
IN: Have you had negative experiences related to your race at UI?
OB: You know, I don't pay attention to much attention to these things. You see more if you pay attention to them. I've lived in so many places and so my mindset is very different. I don't think though that there has been a clear incident where people have ever mistreated me because of what I am. However, I have to say, I noticed when I was brand new, students were somehow be scared of me. They not to believe I was their professor! Yeah, that’s true. They see you and they don't think that you're the professor that should be there. It happens, but then they recognize that you are the professor, you are delivering to their expectation-- they trust you and you become good friends.
OB: I can’t blame them because sometimes you’ve got to learn by experience. This is especially true perhaps because they don’t learn about good things from others races in during childhood and as youths. I’ll tell you one thing: when white people come to Africa, I’m not surprised to see a kid do this on thinking that these people different from me. The same thing happened to me when I went to Denmark. The kids would try and scratch on my skin to see if there was dust or something. Was I be upset? No, because they were curious and likely, they had been taught about other races. Yeah, I can’t think of any other incidents.
IN: Have you noticed any differences in people’s treatment of you since Donald Trump has been in office?
OB: Not quite. I mean it’s the same group of people that I have been with for ten years. My life is here. Home. So, because of that I don't experience most of the things that other people see. You have a limited interaction, you’re in a “microenvironment”, but once you go get into a “macroenvironment” you are likely to experience mistreatments. I think when we were brand Moscow, maybe after four months, my daughter was running cross country in high school. She had a terrible racist experience. Someone said to her, “You're black. Go home,” and shot a gun in the air.
OB: She came home crying, she was really scared. That’s the only single incident that hit me and my family hard. I almost left, but because of the support from school and other things that happened we stayed and since then we have been okay. So, I can't say that these aren't there, I know they're there. That can’t be the only isolated incident, but like I said because I think of my lifestyle and the school in a very narrow reach of people I haven't experienced many incidences.
IN: What do feel you have contributed to your department at UI?
OB: Well, as a teacher maybe and by teaching, it’s what I do. Somehow in research, but not to the level I would like to be so I'm still working my way through. I think I have met what they expect me to do in teaching, research and service and leadership. I think as teachers we always enjoy to see students you've taught move from this level to higher levels. So, when I see students leave from here and go get good positions or move to do PhDs and to medical schools. And, lots of students that head out are medical doctors, accomplished scientists it makes me happy and proud.
IN: Do you bring anything different to the table?
OB: My own expertise. My own expertise is somehow very different from other people’s in this department. It complements what other people are doing. My background is in veterinary medicine which gives me a lot of strength in the medical field. For example, I work with many people around here to collaborate and helping them in terms of studying disease processes, pathology. I think that’s a good thing, a good addition to the department. Also, I'm now the Director of the Optical Imaging Center because of my training in microscopy while pursuing PhD, and my research which uses microscopes. That’s an example of another addition.
IN: Are there any other Black people that have left the institution that I should know about that would be helpful to this project?
OB: Hassell Morrison-Associate Dean. It was really unfortunate when he left because I never said goodbye to him, and I'm always haunted by that because I feel very bad. Dr. Jacqueline Maximilian was an employee in CNR. Priscilla Nyamai- now faculty in Illinois. Dr. Simbah Tirima- left after graduating with his PhD. You know, I will remember other after you leave. This is not a good time for interview because I can't remember names. You see, I could not remember, a family friend, Dr.Julia Nkantha, she moved to Kansas. Oh my God, I can't believe I could not remember her!
IN: Is there anything I should have asked you?
OB: I don’t know. Maybe you if you had sent the objectives before, that could have got me in the right mindset. Like one sentence that says this is my objective. But I think that you asked the most important ones.
Rochelle_smith
Rochelle Smith:
Interviewer: What is your name and position at the university?
RS: My name is Rochelle Smith; I am a reference and instruction librarian and an associate professor. I am the librarian to the humanities part of the College of Letters, Arts and Social Sciences. I am also a Vandal because I graduated from the masters program for creative writing at U of I. That’s not why I am here now, but it’s part of my UI history.
IN: In terms of race and ethnicity how do you identify?
RS: I identify as Black. I prefer that term, especially because I am from the Caribbean. It’s more inclusive. I have used African American because I am an American citizen, but it’s complicated like these things often are. Black, non-Hispanic I guess if you're going to do the census style question.
IN: What made you choose the University of Idaho when choosing where to work?
RS: I actually lived in Moscow for a couple of years back in the 90s and I just loved Moscow. I came here just to visit friends and kind of fell in love with the area. I moved away for library school and was away for several years, then came back for grad school and I was hoping to be able to stay, so when the job at the UI Library opened up, which happened while I was in grad school, I applied and got it. So, it was really the area as much as anything else.
IN: What challenges have you experienced as a member of the University of Idaho faculty and staff?
RS: A lot of challenges have to do with resources. Money is scarce, and it has been the entire time I have been here, especially after the financial crisis in 2008. I think that has been a challenge for everybody, feeling like there’s things that we would like to do, but can't do. So I guess that is one kind of answer. Another one is community building. For example, with Dr. Freeman I am on the Black Faculty and Staff Association which just founded itself a year or so ago. It surprised me that in 2020-2021 there really weren't affinity groups on campus for staff and faculty the way there are for students.
RS: There is not even a policy in the faculty/staff handbook on how to create a university-recognized affinity group, so if the Native American staff or faculty, or the LGBTQ or the Latinx faculty or staff wanted to say here we are, how do we get a group started, how do we get money, how do we sustain ourselves, how do we shape ourselves, there aren't clear pathways to doing that. I am the co-chair of BFSA, and I have had other faculty trying to form affinity groups say they are so glad that BFSA has begun the process, and to let them know when there is some kind of university policy in place. So, we're in the middle of trying to do that now.
IN: What has the climate been while you have been here?
RS: I am trying to be diplomatic and also truthful. I certainly think that when I lived here in the 90s, and again I was pretty young, and just living life, that was in the wake of a lot of white supremacist activity that had happened in northern Idaho. So, my friends at the time were like, are you sure you want to move to Idaho? Moscow was always that little blue dot, always had that little college-town, old-hippies feeling to it, that I think a lot of college towns around the country have. I think one of the things that feels like it has changed in the past decade is the political climate in general.
RS: It has made every place feel different, especially smaller places, but I think the presence of Christ Church has really changed things, in terms of Moscow feeling different, feeling more like encamped sides, and you pick sides, and each side has a coffee shop, and you only go to the coffee shop on your side. Which was not the case in the 90s. I think Moscow in the 90s felt a lot more peace and love and tie-dye. That doesn’t mean there weren’t plenty of issues in the 90s, it just means my engagement with it was more relaxed. Coming back to Moscow, my friends were very clear about the changes, like no no no, that is Christ Church. Some of the conversation that was going on around Christ Church surrounded Doug Wilson’s comments on slavery, where there were university forums discussing that and so on. In some ways Christ Church has increasingly pushed an agenda that has felt very divisive.
RS: And to me, even if you're from a very conservative religious body, there’s plenty of places you could go without defending slavery. Even when going up against women’s reproductive rights, I would be like not cool, but I would get it, that would be very much in line with your larger project. But slavery is a weird thing to stick up for. And I mean who knows why, I am not enough of a political scientist to understand that. I do definitely feel like I miss some microagressions, but one of my survival strategies for living here, which seems dramatic to say, is to the extent I can, socially or morally, to assume the best. I assume the best a lot, and I think that is just who I am, how my own philosophy of life goes. It definitely feels like, we’re in this moment of great social change so everything is much more stirred up, and I think it feels a lot more like there are people we do like and people we don’t like.
IN: Have you been able to develop positive relationships with other black people during your time here at the University of Idaho?
RS: Yeah, I mean keeping in mind there aren't a whole lot of us. If you are a Black person in a majority white space, or a majority non-Black space, the majority of non-Black spaces are going to be white spaces. I think there is always a tendency to be like, hey I see you and you see me, and we nod. I think the Black Faculty and Staff Association is really important because there are people in that group that I don’t know if I ever would have spoken to without it.
RS: And that is not because I wouldn’t have wanted to, it's because you might see someone across campus that you have no direct contact with, I am not going to run across campus and say, “hello fellow Black person! Let’s be friends!” Because that is weird, and I would find that weird if someone did that to me, and so I think that there are not a lot of avenues for connection. So again, I think that the BFSA is an important place for connection, both for people on the Moscow campus and around the state, like Professor Shaakirrah Sanders who is a law professor who is now in Boise but used to be here in Moscow.
IN: What do you feel has been your greatest contribution to your department during your time at the university?
RS: That is a good question. Well I work at the library, and I am a reference librarian, but a teacher first of all. Undergraduate education is really important to me. So I think one contribution that I make is modeling curiosity and passionate engagement for students. And, specifically as an amateur, a generalist. Librarians are jacks and jills of all trades. If you're at the reference desk you could be asked a history question, and the next person could have a chemistry question or the next person a literature question. We are continually toggling between topics, which means I am good at moving between topics.
RS: Let’s say you’re in the English department, you probably spend most of your time thinking about literature. You aren’t necessarily connecting those ideas to science, or to other subjects, but you may need to. It is hard to connect between different topics, and I think that it is something that I am good at, I have the mental space and the energy to think about how things connect. So, I can be a good source for help and ideas that can be connected with one another. Especially with undergrads where you’re not an expert at everything. You may love things, but you’re not yet an expert.
IN: Do you feel like the University has done enough to support you during your time here?
RS: Um, that is a hard question. That is a really hard question. In one sense the university could do more in terms of supporting everybody. For one example, closing budget lines and not hiring new people when someone retires. That can end up taking a lot of funding out of supporting teaching. I think a lot of people would say that, and not just about this university; it’s a general trend. A lot of administration and a lot of fundraising for new sporting facilities like our basketball arena, but not a lot of maintenance on existing buildings and not a lot of making sure we have enough people to teach English or history. The history department is tiny, it is such an important subject and it is what? Seven people? I think over time, making sure that those areas are supported has shifted in ways that I don't agree with.
Sydney_freeman
Sydney Freeman:
Interviewer: Please state your name and your title or role at UI.
SF: Sydney Freeman Jr., Associate Professor at the College of Education at the University of Idaho
IN: What is your ethnicity or race? Do you identify as African-American, African, Caribbean, etc.?
SF: African-American
IN: Where are you from?
SF: Camden, New Jersey. Lived, studied, taught at Tuskegee University in Tuskegee, Alabama, completed grad school at Auburn University, Auburn, Alabama.
IN: What brought you to UI?
SF: I had served as a director of a teaching and learning center at Tuskegee University in Alabama for 3 ½ years and I was producing a lot of research and I was encouraged by mentors and even by my current employer at the time that I may want to pursue a faculty position because I was producing so much. And I heard about this faculty opportunity from a mentor and I applied, interviewed, and got it. What was great is that I was able to get my wife’s faculty position negotiated and they supported me with everything I asked for.
IN: Have you had any previous experiences that you feel prepared you for UI?
SF: Auburn University (where I earned my graduate degrees) was a predominantly white institution, and I found myself having to accommodate them, as opposed to them having to accommodate me. That gave me some experience in navigating a primarily white campus. But then I also had the opposite experience because at Tuskegee it was a predominantly Black school. There would be white people there, but it was mainly Black.
IN: Was it a tough transition moving to Moscow since it’s predominantly white?
SF: Yes, so it was an interesting transition for me because in grad school I had gone to a predominantly white institution, and I had also taught there as an adjunct professor.
IN: Were you nervous to move here or about being here since it’s called the South of the North?
SF: Yes and no, I think I was nervous because I did not know anyone here. But because I had spent significant time in the south, I felt like I was able to navigate the anti-Black racism that I probably would encounter.
IN: Do you feel like you'll stay in this community for a long time? Why or why not?
SF: I truthfully am not sure how long I will stay, I think that because of the Trump presidency and of the way in which, the direction in which the community is going it’s becoming more and more conservative. Although there is a small Black community on campus, we often don't feel supported by the administration. And so, like for instance, I'm the only, or one of the only African-American male faculty members on campus. And so, that gets tiring, like after a while. There’s no support system, so I don't know how long this is sustainable.
IN: Did you bring family with you?
SF: She’s a faculty member in the WWAMI program which is our medical education program. She’s a clinical assistant professor.
IN: Have you built any strong relationships with any other black people or faculty at UI?
SF: The Dean makes sure that I’m supported, but my colleagues often give off a vibe to make me feel like, “He’s just like anybody else” attitude. So that is kind of interesting. So, I've learned that having friends outside of the university was important and I learned that having friends outside of my department and college were very important. I've learned that a lot of time because you're considered competing with your colleagues in your college, in some ways you can't always be as open, whereas when you have someone that’s not in your department and not in your college you can kind of share in more ways.
SF: Because they’re not competing with you. One of the strongest relationships I’ve built while here was with a faculty member that is within the college, his name is Raymond Dixon. He has now become the Chair of the Curriculum & Instruction Department, but he was on my search committee.
IN: Have you had positive experiences related to your race at UI?
SF: Yeah, so I think mostly people have been really supportive. I think it’s been a double-edged sword because I think people aren't comfortable with race and so what’s easy for them to do is just to kind of talk about it and not even address it. And so, they would say, I treat Sydney just like everyone else. That can be positive and negative, right? On one end it could be well, I'm not being singled out. On the other hand, it doesn't take into context my unique background and challenges. Challenges that I may face, but I think overall that people have been supportive. I have people who when I got here they would cut my grass for free.
SF: Just like really nice people. I think overall it’s been a really positive experience. But I do recognize that I did come in during the time that Obama was in office (arrived fall of 2015). It was a whole different vibe, so I often say that there were incentives to be inclusive and to be diverse because you had an environment that would invest in that. Now you have an environment that does not invest in that. Even people who are liberal, or whatever the case may be. That really shows you where their heart is. They’re not investing in it, if there’s no monetary investment, if there’s nothing they can get out of it. They don’t do it.
IN: Have you had negative experiences related to your race at UI?
SF: The tenure process. I just think that there is not the cultural consciousness about how race plays a factor in evaluation experiences. I know other African Americans on campus where there boss would say “How are you doing? I know these things are going on in the world, but I just wanted to check on you. How are you making out?” I don't feel like I have that, like in my environment I don't have that. So, I have to say it. I have to say, “This is messed up” and then people say “Yeah, yeah, yeah”. “We care about you” So for people to want to stay people have to be in an environment that says I care about you, enough to check on you, to see how you are doing in that regard. I think that your kind of on your own.
IN: Have you noticed any differences in people’s treatment of you since Donald Trump has been in office?
SF: Yes, people are even more reluctant to speak up about race. Particularly, anti-Black racism.
IN: What do feel you have contributed to your department at UI?
SF: I am the first African American to get tenure in my department. Then, I'm the highest producer of research in my department. My research focuses on the areas of leadership preparation in higher education, teaching preparation, faculty preparation for higher ed. I am the editor of The Journal for the Study of Post-Secondary and Tertiary Education.
IN: Do you bring anything different to the table?
SF: Yeah, I think one of the things I really bring to the table that’s not even a racial issue is that I come from a different part of the country so I come from New Jersey so I have a particular way of thinking. And then not just that, I spent 12 years in the South, so I bring that, a different lens. That informs the way in which I look at things. I also think that my age plays a significant role. I’m 34. I say that because all my colleagues are essentially they're in their forties, fifties, sixties. So my perspective is going to be different than those who have children, that have a decade or two on me.
SF: So I may have more research output or certain other experiences, but the truth is that there are things I'm still learning. And it’s a lot of things you’re learning for the first time given age. So, they have that, then you mix that with race. One of the challenges often will have is that most things are what we call intersectional. So, there’s sometimes where you can isolate things just as race, but most times they intersect. How we deal with a situation is not just based on race, but it’s also intersected with gender, so I often say the truth is the way that you talk to me as a 34 year old professor is going to be different than if you had a 79 year old white woman who is a professor. Right? That’s just the truth.
SF: We’re not saying there’s anything wrong with that. But we’re saying have to acknowledge that that’s the case, and I think we don’t acknowledge that. So, that’s why people get upset where if I were to grab something here and walk out the door, the way people would rush and try and get me is different than if I was 79 years old and I was an old lady and I was a klepto and I stole something, right? And so the truth is that we have to be honest about that. I think we’re not, we try to say we treat everyone the same and it’s not so.