Kodjotse Afatchao Item Info
Kodjotse Afatchao
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Kodjotse Afatchao:
Interviewer:Please state your name and your title or role at UI.
KA:Official name Kodjotse Afatchao, but I’m known as Ro Afatchao or Romuald Afatchao. I’m a Clinical Professor and I’m Associate Director of the Martin Institute and program of International Studies.
IN:What is your ethnicity or race? Do you identify as African-American, African, Caribbean, etc.?
KA:I'm an African American. African dash American. I'm an African originally, but now I'm a US citizen, so that’s how I identify. African-American, so either work for me.
IN:Where are you from?
KA:I'm originally from Togo, a small country in West Africa.
IN:What brought you to UI?
KA:I came here in 2001 to go to grad school. I actually got my doctorate from UI. Then after I got a job and I stayed.
IN:Have you had any previous experiences that you feel prepared you for UI?
KA:Yes and no. So the yes part is that before coming here I had some experience in France, which is, although over there you have a lot of black folks for sure. Nothing could really prepare you for this experience. In fact, I had family members who basically tried to prevent me from coming to Idaho in early 2000 because they just had that incident in northern Idaho with the Aryan Nations.
So when I came to the United States my first spot that I landed was in Philadelphia. I had a cousin there at that time. I came there even though I was coming to Idaho because I got admission for Idaho; so I was coming for Idaho. I spent two weeks with my cousin in Philadelphia and they told me how bad it was here, and people were very scared for me. I didn't know what I was getting into. I was really positively surprised because when I got into town, Moscow is like this bubble. So, I think that’s why I stayed after all these years. The community is great.
IN:Was it a tough transition moving to Moscow since it’s predominantly white?
KA:Of course. My experience was even worse than that. Nervous wouldn't even begin to describe it because with all that in mind, people telling me how bad it was here, and then my cousin put me onto Greyhound bus to make the three day trip here and for some reason, I don't even know if he didn't have any idea about how distance time works, how far Idaho was. He told me it would take six hours to get here.
I left Philadelphia at 6pm on a Sunday and I didn’t get here until Wednesday at 2pm. So, when I came here, I was tired, you name it. I quote on quote lost my bag in Billings, Montana at the bus station there. I had a buddy on the bus, we met on the bus, we both checked a locker at the bus station to lock our bag before we went into town to go eat. But then this guy had the key and disappeared on me. Then I came here without my bag. The next day he came to the hotel because I told him the hotel I was going to be staying at and he dropped the bag off.
IN:Do you feel like you'll stay in this community for a long time? Why or why not?
KA:Okay, so, yes and maybe not. So yes because I love the community. My son was born here, my wife likes this community, my wife is from Togo as well, but she doesn't want to go anywhere but here. She came, she joined me a year and a half after I got here. With that in mind, my family has their roots here now. My son, all he knows is that this is home for him. He’s 14 now. He started everything, all of his friends are here, everything for him is here. When we travel back home these days, he doesn't want to go. For him it’s not home, so I have that. I've started engaging folks over there, as well. I travel there a lot there now.
I have a sort of second life there, I have a nonprofit that we created here, but it’s functional over there. We have the office and the workers are all over there. I’ve been doing the back and forth a lot lately. Part of me is saying it’s maybe time to start thinking about maybe doing the transition. I call it transition for now because it’s not going to just be easy for me leave today and that’s it. It’s going to be gradual. We own a house here, so at least we will wait until my son is in college. I don’t plan on going anywhere else, or even if I go I will still have another home here.
IN:Do you think your son will go to UI?
KA:I hope so because if he does go here and I'm still here, that’s cheaper for me. You don't want to spend too much on the undergraduate. You can get a good experience as an undergrad for an affordable cost, then you can save the money later on to go to grad school.
IN:Have you built any strong relationships with any other black people or faculty at UI?
KA:Yeah, so, as you know we are not that many around here. We all know each other, we socialize, we do stuff together. In fact, Sydney and his family were at my house the other day for my wife’s birthday party. We know each other. Of course, right now I think we have way more than we used to have. I remember when I first came here you barely see any black faculty at all. I knew two at that time and one of them left was at law school. This was like 2004. There was this black faculty member, but she left after a year because she didn't feel welcome here at all. It was a tough experience for her, and she left.
Then there was Wudneh Admassu from chemical engineering, and he’s been here for a long time. Those were the two really that I knew of then. By the time I joined this program Mark Edwards was the Associate or Assistant Provost for Diversity, he was a black guy. I heard he passed last year. He left also, before he passed. Then nothing for a while, then there was a Kenyan guy who was recruited by the College of Ag, then the College of Science recruited, what is his name? He’s in biology and WWAMI, Onesmo.
Onesmo and his wife came and at that time another colleague of mine, she did her doctorate here, she was from Tanzania, she got her postdoc also from the university. The population started to increase here a little bit. The Associate Dean of Students who left: Hassel. Raymond Dixon from College of Education and then of course Sydney and his wife came around. Then a few more staff came around here and there. It’s increasing and it’s more representative, it’s getting there, even though we're not there yet. I joke about it because whenever I sub on a committee, I sub as a token diversity person. I end up serving on so many committees. But it’s good to have other folks now.
IN:Have you had positive experiences related to your race at UI?
KA:Yeah, for the most part. The thing about USA in general is that people usually don't tell you what they think. Unless really, the people are really mean, like jerks. My experience with French, for example, the French there’s nothing they won't tell you, “It’s nothing personal.” They will just say it, that’s how the culture works there. The feedback is really harsh there, and Americans think it’s really harsh. If they don't like you, they don't like you, they're not going to pretend. In the USA, you never know. To go back to the experience, most of my engagement here, professional relations and private relations have been very positive.
Of course, nothing is perfect. Once in a while people remind you that you don’t really belong. Stuff like that happens from time to time, but that’s not the dominant part of my experience. The dominant part of my experience is mostly positive actually. In fact, to the point where I actually call it positive racism. When people are overly nice to you, they don’t want to offend you. Sometimes it’s awkward, really. People come to you and start talking to you about football, like I will know anything about football. All of those stuff, people are trying really hard.
IN:Have you had negative experiences related to your race at UI?
KA:Yeah, like I said, you always have those but, I don’t let them define me. Some of those I try not to remember them as well because if you remember them they will spoil your experience in general. Of course, I've had stuff at the stores where people will follow you and all kind of stuff like that. At one point we were point blank accused at WinCo at one time of stealing candy. Yeah, it was an interesting experience. I'm like, candy? Anyway, then you go to Walmart, and you buy stuff for ten dollars, you pay with your debit card, and somebody asks you to see your ID. Somebody in front of you paid for a hundred dollars and no one asks to see their ID. I'm used to those.
I understand little stuff like when you’re crossing the road cars don’t stop. People don’t realize that. Cars don’t stop for us. If you make a mistake and you jumped in to cross, you’re screwed. Whenever I’m crossing road at the crossroad, I don’t assume that the car is going to stop for me. I won’t walk until they stop both ways before I cross. Most cars don’t stop. Little stuff like you're walking on the street, especially women, they see you on the other side and their attitude change. They start to walking like this. Those stuff people don't even realize. Even well-meaning people, they don’t even realize. I’ve seen it so much that it’s really amusing whenever I see that happen. You are walking on the sidewalk and then maybe 20-50 yards from you and then they see you. All of the sudden they change side, or you can see the attitude change, hand in the pocket, the posture would change. I’m used to it.
IN:Have you noticed any differences in people’s treatment of you since Donald Trump has been in office?
KA:Don’t get me started. It’s both ways. I won't just say it’s people treatment of me alone, but it’s also my treatment of people who I believe voted for Trump. I've never done anything like this before. I told anybody who’s my friend, if I find out you voted for Trump we can't be friends. It’s not about Republican or Democrat stuff. I never vote party line, I don't belong to any party, I'm independent. During elections, I don't vote for Republicans or Democrats, no, I vote for who is qualified. For me Trump represents something that is a threat to my being, a threat to my family. That’s how I see it. That’s how I see it.
So, if you say you are my friend or you’re a good colleague of mine and you go through all that stuff and you voted for him. Good for you, but make damn sure that I don’t find out. I’m up front with them. I tell them. It’s freedom of speech. They have the right to vote for whom they want to, and I have the right to not associate myself with people I believe have different values. Values that are threat to my way of life, threats to my physical being, that’s what I’m saying. It gives more of a voice to a lot of folks now. People yelling stuff. That didn’t used to happen in Moscow, just in the last year. Derogatory words and stuff like that.
You go to the store, and you see their behavior… a lot of things have changed. It’s unfortunate because this country is better than that. Yeah, I have seen a lot of changes and I’ve dumped a bunch of friends. Quote and quote friends. I don’t regret it because I don’t know how you can pretend to be a friend of somebody and do something that is going to be a threat to that person. I will never do it to anybody. It’s not politics for me. There are a bunch of other Republican candidates that have business connections as well.
IN:What do feel you have contributed to your department at UI?
KA:Let me joke about this because, let me start with a joke. My boss, the head of the department here, he used to joke about how before I joined the department they always get crushed on diversity, then all the sudden I jumped into the department. They became a model department. There was only two of us. Then all of the sudden I'm African and I jump in. I check a lot of boxes. International, black, African-American, you name it. You can check a lot of boxes. It’s the reality that since I came here, because of the way the situation was I knew I was in a minority situation. I was one of the first people to join the diversity committee as a student in 2004. I’ve been a part of that committee since then. A lot of the things that happened like we had a diversity statement. A bunch of stuff that got included in the strategic plan for diversity and inclusion, not just black folks.
I’ve been a part of those. In my department specifically, I believe the fact that I’ve had so many diverse experiences not just as a black person, but intellectual experiences in different countries. I’ve studied in four different countries. I think just the exposure and the knowledge that I bring to here can help a lot of students. Intellectually, I collaborate a lot across the university, not just my department. I collaborate with basically all departments except maybe dance. College of Music, College of Law, College of Science, College of Ag, College of Natural Resources, all kind of stuff. So, I’ve done a bunch of things because of my background. I have a law degree before coming here and doing my PhD in Environmental Science. I have a connection with folks in College of Natural Resources. I’ve done stuff with various student clubs. I’ve done stuff with engineers, with Engineers Without Borders club at UI. I’ve done stuff with a lot of folks, so, because of that diversity of background, diversity my academic background. I think I could say I’ve brought a little bit of diverse thinking and the way I get new student as well is something that is not common to a lot of folks.
My department actually has this culture of open office, office rooms so that students can come talk to us and there aren’t any barriers. They don’t call me Dr. Afatchao, they call me Ro. Everybody calls me Ro. That experience alone makes sure to give more to the students. When they have questions, they can talk to me and a lot of people and that’s how we do business in the department. I believe that the experiences that I’ve have had contributed to me giving back to all kinds of things at the university. That’s why I said a while ago that I’ve served on so many committees. Of course, maybe their thinking might be because they want somebody with diverse background, but I believe that by having me on the committee gives other views that would not have presented and not just because I’m black, because I could check so many boxes, and because of my intellectual abilities I could see stuff other people couldn't see. I think I’ve contributed a lot for the little amount of time I’ve spent here. 18 years altogether so far. 17 going on 18. One thing that I didn’t tell you is that 2001 bus ride, I didn’t speak any English. I learned my English here. I came from a French system. The bus ride was so traumatic for me without the language.
IN:Are there any other black people that have left the institution that I should know about that would be helpful to this project?
KA:It’s interesting to know that the biggest college at UI, my college, has only one black guy, me.
IN:Is there anything I should have asked you?
KA:Maybe one of the things that has been at the back of my mind, lately. It’s the fact that most of the time, people don't give us respect. The respect that I'm talking about is like because of Affirmative Action people always see us as products of Affirmative Action. All people see you and they just have assumptions and sometimes it’s really annoying if you don't get that respect that you think you deserve. For me it’s not just about being black at all. Sometimes it’s just about being African. Once I open my mouth and I start talking, people know I'm not from here. They ask me a question, “Where are you originally from?”
And I tell them Togo, then because when I way Togo most people here Tonga and they start talking about the Pacific and all that, but I’m West African. Then discrimination comes from there as well, where people all kind of prejudices they have, their fantasies and prejudices they have about Africa. That’s how they see us, like uncivilized. People who haven’t seen real civilization until they got here and all that stuff. But all of that stuff comes out of a place of ignorance. That is more, I think in Moscow and at the university if I may talk about discrimination, that’s the one that I’ve felt the most. That I’ve actually caught it.
Believe it or not, I've felt discrimination from fellow African-Americans. “Yes, you're not really African-American and so you don't have the same experience we have.” Yes, I may not have had the same experience, but guess what? When the racists are targeting us, they don't care if I'm from Africa or not. I call it double whammy where you get discriminated against because of some white folk who just doesn't like black people or you get discriminated against from some African-American who believes you're here to take opportunities away from them. It's fascinating stuff to manage.
IN:I spoke with someone this morning who mentioned something similar. She said that she felt like she had to defend her position even though they were all working in the same place.
KA:To the point, especially, when it comes to the other side of the equation of the Affirmative Action one. At one point I got so upset I went to my boss, I wanted to know if my hiring was Affirmative Action. He told me he won't talk to me about it, instead he'll send me to talk to one of the finalist for the position, which I didn't know before. I actually went to the person and asked them how they felt when I got the job and they didn't.
She said that when she saw my qualifications, she felt embarrassed to be also a candidate for the position. So, that gave me a little bit of peace of mind, knowing that I didn't get a position just because. I know that wouldn't happen here, but that was the perception, that’s why I asked. There are a lot of genuine folks around here that don't care about where you come from. Thankfully we have a lot more of those folks than the others.
IN:Have you found any support structure within the institution for faculty and staff of color?
KA:Not anymore. The university used to put on a social (for faculty of color) and we'd all meet each other and when there’s a new person. We don't have that anymore?
IN:Why not?
KA:I don’t know.
IN:Would you like to see it brought back?
KA:You know, Michael Satz was the one doing that alongside Angelique Eaglewoman, she was Native American. Since they left, those things need a little bit of money to bring together, they need support. The Law School was supporting that, and since they left no other program picked that up. So all of the sudden we don't have that anymore. So the last one we went to before Angelique Eaglewoman left the university, we were really surprised because at the event we'll usually have the President and the Provost and a lot of Deans because they also wanted to meet. The last one we went to, none of the higher ups showed up and we all noticed that. We were like, “Wow.”
IN:Why hasn't any other college or program picked it up?
KA:I don’t know. Law was doing it because the genuinely wanted to invest the resources in order to retain the diverse faculty. Most colleges don't have diverse faculty, at least people that look like me. If you go to College of Natural Resources, they're all Caucasian. Even if they're not from here they're all from Italy or France. Science you have Onesmo, Wudneh is down there, there’s me here, Sydney and Raymond Dixon over there. You would think it’s a no brainer, but nobody is working on that.
- Title:
- Kodjotse Afatchao
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- text
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- application/pdf
- Preferred Citation:
- "Kodjotse Afatchao", Black History at the University of Idaho, Black History Research Lab, University of Idaho
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