Episode 6 : “It’s So Wild” : an interview with Rob Mason [Mason talks about previous experiences working at national forests around the country] [transcript]

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:29:14 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: Welcome to the Subway Bitterroot Wilderness History Project, which is made possible by a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities. The University of Idaho, and Washington State University. Part of the project’s mission is to collect, preserve, and make public oral histories documenting the history and people of the subway. Bitterroot wilderness. For more information, please visit our website at SPW lib edu Idaho edu.

00:00:29:16 - 00:00:54:14 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: And then I think people, I think people get so much out of being in a wilderness setting. Once you take away cars and money and telephones, people are different and they are different to each other, I think. and, and then they draw on things in themselves that maybe are a little rusty from our crazy life out here.

00:00:54:14 - 00:01:25:21 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: Now, I think the ways that people get along when they’re isolated in a place like that, that they place that they want to be, are really it’s a wonderful thing.

00:01:25:24 - 00:01:57:01 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: Thank you for joining us for the sixth episode of the Selway Bitterroot Wilderness History Project. One of the unique features of the Selway Bitterroot Wilderness is the way people who manage it have preserved the wilderness character, and how they have taught others to cherish wild land as a valuable natural resource. In this episode, titled It’s So Wild, Rob Mason compares his experience working in many of the National Forests throughout the Western United States with his work for the Selway Bitterroot Wilderness.

00:01:57:03 - 00:02:34:08 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: Since December of 2008, Rob has served as the Executive Director of the Selway Bitterroot Frank Church Foundation, whose mission is to connect citizens and communities to assist in the stewardship of the Selway Bitterroot Wilderness. The Frank church, River of No Return Wilderness, and the surrounding wild Lands. Prior to joining the Foundation, Rob worked as the wilderness manager for the Sierra National Forest for five years, where he earned the Forest Service’s Bob Marshall Award for Individual Champion of Wilderness Stewardship for his work in the John Muir and Ansel Adams Wilderness.

00:02:34:10 - 00:02:42:18 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: In his work and life, Rob consistently shows a deep passion for wilderness stewardship and protecting wilderness character.

00:02:42:20 - 00:02:55:29 Rob Mason: So eventually I did, apply for the position, and I was lucky enough to get to work for the so I Bitterroot Foundation and, that’s how I got up here in the nonprofit sector, working in the cellar.

00:02:56:06 - 00:03:04:01 Rob Mason: Yeah. So when you say take care of the place is what? What does that mean?

00:03:04:03 - 00:03:38:27 Rob Mason: Well, the Wilderness Act defines sort of broadly what it means to steward a wilderness area. And it basically what it says is protect wilderness character. The number one job of all agencies when it comes to wilderness is protect wilderness character. So that’s kind of a vague term, wilderness character. It’s been defined by agencies. But in general, you could say it means do whatever you need to do to make sure this place stays wild, natural, undeveloped, untrammeled, has solitude and those kind of qualities.

00:03:39:00 - 00:03:44:16 Rob Mason: so that’s kind of work to me. Taking care of place means it’s protecting the wilderness character of it.

00:03:44:19 - 00:03:46:05 Rob Mason: so, okay.

00:03:46:07 - 00:04:05:08 Rob Mason: That and how that plays out in the field is any number of ways. Of course, it’s things as basic as opening trails. to invasive weed management, recreation management, regulations to protect solitude if necessary.

00:04:05:10 - 00:04:22:13 Rob Mason: so what are some of the, do you have any experiences of experiencing solitude in the wilderness that particularly inform your idea about it?

00:04:22:16 - 00:04:46:25 Rob Mason: yeah. Solitude is probably one of the trickiest things to, try to manage for in wilderness, because it’s so it means so many different things to so many different people for, you know, I when I worked in the Sierras, if you only saw 20 people in a day, that was solitude to me because it was so crowded there.

00:04:46:27 - 00:05:07:15 Rob Mason: for someone coming up from LA, if they saw if they were camped at a lake with 100 people, that was out because it was so remote compared to where they live up here. If you see two people in a day, you’re like, wow, that was amazing. We got to talk to some other people today besides our crew, and usually that’s not what happened.

00:05:07:16 - 00:05:26:24 Rob Mason: Here’s you don’t see anyone a lot of times besides your crew. so it’s, a tricky thing. It’s a social science, really. Solitude is. And, I’m not a social scientist, but, Yeah, that I don’t know. That’s a hard one to define. I mean, for me, that’s a background that I have.

00:05:26:25 - 00:05:39:11 Rob Mason: Well, and you personally, can you if you if someone said, well, give me an example of when you personally experienced, what would what would be your example?

00:05:39:14 - 00:05:43:01 Rob Mason: Well.

00:05:43:03 - 00:06:12:12 Rob Mason: I’ve been lucky enough to be in a lot of wilderness areas in my life, and I will say that the South is unquestionably the wildest place. And part of that is because of the tremendous solitude. for for me, part of solitude is also, I experience that most intensely when there’s also sort of, I don’t know, fear factor.

00:06:12:12 - 00:06:36:08 Rob Mason: I guess the, the right word. when you don’t really know what that outcome’s gonna be, there is a risk that you’re taking and you’re by yourself, and, and I, I have really never experienced that as intensely anywhere else as I have in the, the South. I because you’re so far away from anything. When you’re solo backpacking through the subway.

00:06:36:10 - 00:06:52:17 Rob Mason: And if you don’t have if you don’t have a radio with you, you know which off the times you don’t. Certainly, if you’re a member of the public and even us, if we’re not on work time, it’s I mean, it’s, experience it in a, in a to a high degree, I guess.

00:06:52:20 - 00:07:20:22 Rob Mason: so can you when you, first came and you said you’ve been in a lot of wilderness areas and you’ve been lucky enough when you first came into the cell, we did a route country. What was different about the place? I mean, obviously you said the remoteness and the lack of people. Was there anything peculiar or odd or, that struck you?

00:07:20:24 - 00:07:46:08 Rob Mason: the thing that makes it so special is that it, I didn’t know. I guess I didn’t realize this to the full extent that I feel like I do now when I came here, but it is super wild. I mean, it is what will is the epitome of wilderness to me. wildness, I guess. and it’s because it’s so big and there’s so few intrusions from the outside.

00:07:46:14 - 00:08:09:08 Rob Mason: So, in contrast, a place like Death Valley, which has is a lot of wilderness, has a lot of roads cutting up into the. Well, you know, cherry stemming into the wilderness boundaries. the it doesn’t. And so it’s this big contiguous block. And also the populations around it are low. And so you don’t get that many people there.

00:08:09:11 - 00:08:31:13 Rob Mason: And it’s so rugged. I mean, it’s unquestionably the most rugged place I’ve ever been. I mean, more rugged than the Olympic Peninsula to me, far more rugged than the Sierras or the southern Rockies. and that that just makes it hard to get around. So all of that collectively makes it incredibly wild. And that’s what really strikes me about this.

00:08:31:13 - 00:08:40:00 Rob Mason: So I it’s it’s not spectacular scenery, although it is it is beautiful, but it is wild.

00:08:40:02 - 00:08:42:03 Rob Mason: Right. And it has to grow.

00:08:42:05 - 00:08:44:10 Rob Mason: Right. Yeah. Right. Right.

00:08:44:13 - 00:08:53:08 Rob Mason: So what can you tell us about maybe one of your most, maybe one trip in particular that was memorable to you?

00:08:53:10 - 00:09:13:00 Rob Mason: I decided one day to hike into Moose Creek in a day from Paradise, and this was in my off time. I just wanted to go visit some folks at this creek, and I decided I knew there was, you know, beds back there, and I think I had left a sleeping bag there in a tent, so I didn’t really need overnight stuff.

00:09:13:00 - 00:09:29:04 Rob Mason: And I was like, all right, I’m just going to move light and fast. I’m gonna wear tennis shoes. I’m going to take a load day pack, and I’m just going to go 30 maybe miles, something like that. Well, that part of the silhouette shows way more rocky than the downside. And part of the Selway Trail below is creek.

00:09:29:06 - 00:09:53:11 Rob Mason: And, it was a huge mistake because by halfway through, you know, a 30 mile hike is never easy, no matter where you are, even if it’s flat dirt. But, and I fear just and horrible pain. I felt like I could barely walk. I tried to stop in at subway lodge for a break and no one was there, so I just kept moving through.

00:09:53:14 - 00:10:16:01 Rob Mason: But I didn’t know any stuff, so I couldn’t stop because I didn’t have any stuff with me. I mean, I would have had to basically cover ourselves in myself in leaves if I wanted to spend the night somewhere. I had no food. I mean, I had some snacks, but it’s, it was horrible. I couldn’t really walk the next day, but from blisters and from, you know, just fatigue.

00:10:16:01 - 00:10:22:08 Rob Mason: And that was one of the mammoth trips. I’ll never do that again.

00:10:22:10 - 00:10:45:10 Rob Mason: So what do you see? in terms of wilderness and the wilderness preservation system throughout North America? and, and, why is the so way better wilderness important in the larger system in terms of the country and maybe even the world?

00:10:45:13 - 00:10:48:29 Rob Mason: the well.

00:10:49:01 - 00:11:26:28 Rob Mason: The so is, you know, the third largest wilderness area today in the lower 48 states. and it’s right adjacent to the Frank, which you could argue is the first or second largest wilderness area, depending on how people define Death Valley, which would rival it. and I guess. The size of flagship in the National park reservation system, because of its size and its complexity, it sets a lot of, examples of what should happen in other places around the country.

00:11:27:01 - 00:12:09:09 Rob Mason: example wildfire policy or wilderness wildfire policy. the Selway was sort of the testing grounds, and it could be the testing grounds because it was so big and remote, and you could let a fire rip, and it wasn’t going to burn down a community, you know, somewhere, and, I guess that in a broader sense, it’s I think the setting is important for the country because, it says something when, country says we’re going to set aside a chunk of land and a huge chunk of land that actually does have a lot of resources that could be used for human uses, extractive uses.

00:12:09:11 - 00:12:36:20 Rob Mason: but we’re not going to do that. We’re going to, set it aside for all the values that we know wilderness has that’s powerful and that, I think it, opens the door to allowing that to happen in other places, both in this country and other and other countries, really. But, yeah. So to me that it’s the so is incredibly valuable for those two reasons.

00:12:36:26 - 00:12:41:15 Rob Mason: I mean, and I’m sure we could list a million others.

00:12:41:17 - 00:13:08:20 Debbie Lee or Jane Holman: Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Selway Bitterroot Wilderness History Project, which has been made possible by the National Endowment for the Humanities, the University of Idaho, and Washington State University. The project coordinator is Debbie Lee, recorded and produced by Aaron Jepson.