Clem, Jones, Jackson Interviews [transcript]

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:22:10 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They were shooting. Shooting, brake hard pass and took photographs that I’m using, I hope to use in the book and I hope be interesting if they have. you just told of your experience during that movie? What things? You, you know, this and, like, sort of some of the people, you know, I don’t know what to say.

00:00:22:12 - 00:00:28:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah, well, of course,

00:00:28:29 - 00:00:58:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Movie people showed up, but, we were late all. And, we took them all over the railroad to, up on the headquarters branch in the forest, up in this Glendale branch on a second subdivision. And they picked up likely spots, that they’d like to shoot. They did come up a little bit early.

00:00:58:26 - 00:01:45:15 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah. I can’t quite recall in early February, if I recall, or late January of 1975. And at that time, we just took a locomotive and caboose and they mounted 2 or 3 cameras for high shots, old shots, side shots, panoramic shots from the locomotive, just for background. Yeah. And, on the movie, the little boy and, later in February, they, came in with a little, that goes in a four, 604, six I bought or two six.

00:01:45:15 - 00:01:48:11 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: So I’m not sure. Just go ahead and look at the pictures.

00:01:48:11 - 00:01:49:18 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I think it was A46.

00:01:49:25 - 00:02:02:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: and, it’s owned by you, retired engineer by the name of Broad and Denver. How do you spell Harry? H w e r roller room?

00:02:02:29 - 00:02:03:22 Ron Jones: No.

00:02:03:24 - 00:02:20:09 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And, he ran the engine almost exclusively. He also broke another, engineer with him who acted as a fireman most of the time. And,

00:02:20:11 - 00:02:23:13 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Was this oil or coal?

00:02:23:16 - 00:02:54:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: it was a coal burning locomotive. However, in the movie sequences, the coal all covered up with cordwood due to simulate the early days of and, and, they took the engine into the Kemper, their own house and painted it and, reloaded it from Los Ash in Nevada. I believe there was a railroad in the movie.

00:02:55:00 - 00:02:58:21 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And,

00:02:58:23 - 00:03:06:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: At the same time, they purchased, oh, I believe it was eight.

00:03:07:00 - 00:03:29:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Oh. Former, burnt cars. And they used to use out on the road for the maintenance crews, and they purchased eight of those cars, and they took those over into the Potlatch mill on one of the empty tracks in the shed there, where they can work on them out of the weather. And they painted all those cars up.

00:03:29:25 - 00:04:05:07 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: We, started they started shooting. Filming by helicopter, mostly as the engine went up the river. between, Lewiston and Owen Pinole and then, the the weather was rather nice, bright sunshiny days down on the lower river. But when we get to feet, it was started up the hill. Then we got in with pretty heavy snow and we, we filmed on the, course subdivision or quit while we were up there.

00:04:05:09 - 00:04:33:10 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: most of March, but but the only thing was that, the snow got so deep and so bad that we derailed the train 3 or 4 times. The main reason being that, In the movie shooting, we had to reverse move. No, would get back up and then take a shot again or reshooting or take another, take in various scenes and so forth.

00:04:33:12 - 00:05:05:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, it was okay. Is in one direction, but when you start going, the other direction will drive the snow underneath. And, the lighter cars just would derail. we’re about pulling the car to the engine and leave it kind of clear to snow off the track, and and they didn’t have any problem. So after several episodes of trying to rear rail cars up in snow, up to your neck, well, we, the director, Tom gross as well.

00:05:05:23 - 00:05:38:16 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Let’s get out of here and go run the second subdivision and, hit, It worked, fairly well up there. However, I do remember, Charles Bronson, was down in the creek up at the summit, panning for gold quite often. He never did find any gold, but, I think he enjoyed himself. We he’s seemed to be in the outdoor type anyway.

00:05:38:19 - 00:05:49:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And, we I became acquainted with, Richard Crenna and,

00:05:49:25 - 00:06:08:21 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: without losing Charlie, Charlie Durning and, Ed Louder. some of Mrs. Bronson, who was Jill Ireland, of course. And they were a pretty good, real good bunch of people to talk to. I enjoyed being with them.

00:06:08:25 - 00:06:10:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Mrs. Bronson was what you.

00:06:10:14 - 00:06:30:16 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Say her screen name is Jill Ireland? and she was played the female lead in the show. Yeah. And, there were several others. involved there too, as far as, as is concerned.

00:06:30:19 - 00:06:35:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: We then went up on the,

00:06:35:16 - 00:07:08:01 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Second subdivision. Incidentally, up on the fourth of the bridge, we had two trains up there, too, and it was a matter of trying to coordinate the movie shooting. And, give them a full day’s shooting and still not delay our or our change. And, in fact, that was my job was a kind of coordinator there to to keep, the chemistry logjam moving at the same time, afford to move, train all the shootings possible.

00:07:08:04 - 00:07:11:29 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Did they, pay the cameras pretty well for those of us?

00:07:12:01 - 00:07:35:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: yes. There was a contract that was, written up between the, the, Burlington Northern and the Union Pacific and, the cameras. Prairie was a recipient of, of the monies involved. and, also.

00:07:35:22 - 00:08:16:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Of course, I understand get off the subject is just to say of the financial structure of the Kansas prairie is any local traffic stays on the campus, correct? Yeah, I know that, but, if it was off line, well, then the ten companies would divide it up on the current mile basis. But, We went up to second subdivision, and then they made the move on a Sunday, and we left our final on Sunday morning, came west down, Clearwater, Clearwater River to Spalding and started up tearing it up.

00:08:16:17 - 00:08:52:25 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: The second subdivision, we, we had one diesel locomotive and that came with Prairie Engineer and, and, I don’t recall there was a fireman or not. It may have been. And the conductor and two brakeman then, they were the engineer on the steam engine and then business partners were with us. But none of the movie people at that time, they were going to meet us at, Reubens, which is at the top of the grade on the second subdivision.

00:08:52:27 - 00:09:19:07 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: We got, but as we started up the mountain, there were just patches of snow, on the lower part of the mountain and a little bit more snow on top. But, somewhere along the line, they decided to see how much that little steam engine would pull. and, of course, the diesel single use diesel didn’t have a problem pulling the train, including the steam engine up there.

00:09:19:09 - 00:09:43:21 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: So, they got going up the line and, pull and engineer Aurora was ready. They gave us a signal, and they shut the power off the diesel. And, there was quite an eruption of black smoke and steam and everything else coming out of that, steam engine. But it wasn’t only a matter of, maybe a third to a half a mile.

00:09:43:21 - 00:10:07:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And he bogged down. I mean, that was all. You didn’t have the power to get up there with that small all time steam engine. And, incidentally, that engine, if I recall, formerly belonged to the to the C, B and Q. It was purchased by the Great Western Sugar Company over in Montana or Wyoming. And then we’ll leave this load.

00:10:08:00 - 00:10:37:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Mr. Rohrer was able to secure the locomotive, but anyway, we got up on top and, proceed the film between Reubens and Craig Malt for several weeks and, the 4 or 5 nights all night shooting, it seemed as though, I was with them. Well, I was with them all the time, but.

00:10:37:27 - 00:11:01:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: My days were running the 16, 18 to 20 hours or seven days a week. and during the parade from February through mid April, we, I don’t think I got home over 3 or 4 times, but it was just a matter of, we getting married keeping going up there.

00:11:01:20 - 00:11:01:28 Ron Jones: oh.

00:11:01:28 - 00:11:11:15 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: It was a good matter of feeding all those people. How was that handled? Or were you involved with the crew? The movie crew, two on eating and so on, and. Right.

00:11:11:18 - 00:11:48:12 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, they, loaded a catering truck on a flatcar, and the fat girl also, and, some big tables, they set out on it in this catering truck which put out and. Very, very good meals. at noon. it was they were big meals, you know, and, also in mid-morning, they’d come out there with the big five gallon cans of hot, soup or chili.

00:11:48:14 - 00:12:09:06 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They had, they had then in the afternoon they had more, like that these in the afternoon. But the big meal was at noon and there was a hot meal. They had some the best prime rib I’ve ever eaten alive, and they were 3 or 4 times a week. But it was all right with me.

00:12:09:13 - 00:12:12:21 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, this is February, March, April, the cold.

00:12:12:23 - 00:12:45:06 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: It was going out in the open and we were we ate up in the open. Yeah, well, some of it in the caboose. There were two busses along as well as, as, the regular car that came with the locomotive from Denver and some of them ate in there too, but, you’d be surprised number them because they were dressed for outdoors, just after dinner, outdoors, and much most of us did.

00:12:45:08 - 00:12:55:04 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They but they did that good meals and, they, they wouldn’t hesitate in the, the monthly for out either.

00:12:55:06 - 00:12:59:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: So like you who worked for Camis Prairie were included in that. And you ate.

00:12:59:26 - 00:13:14:21 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah. They spent all the training Indian crews on the canvas Prairie, as well as myself or anyone that was who was there at the time, know, and they had no problem. But they paid everybody that showed up as far as that’s concerned.

00:13:14:23 - 00:13:20:25 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Oh did they houses people. Where did they know they.

00:13:20:28 - 00:14:01:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They had a regular fleet of four wheel drive. Suburbans and that sort of, of, of of automobiles as well as quite a few vans that held up to 12, 14 people and also one big bus that they hold a lot of the movie people in. When I say movie people, I’m talking about hairdressers, the makeup people there and the, the one that would support the sport crews.

00:14:01:22 - 00:14:23:15 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Right. and so they but they wouldn’t we were on the floor subdivision. We stayed or penal at the motel at our funeral. the big there’s a big motel there. They took just about the whole motel over during that period. And,

00:14:23:17 - 00:14:34:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: When we were working at, on the second subdivision, it was back and forth to Lewiston. Every night. They’d just drive the hotel back to Lewiston every night and up again in the morning.

00:14:34:16 - 00:14:37:02 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And it said some motel here in Lewiston.

00:14:37:04 - 00:14:52:20 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, yes. Yes, they had, in fact, most of them stayed until the old Lewis and Clark Hotel at that time, which was in operation at that time, in fact,

00:14:52:23 - 00:15:24:03 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Margaret. Well, they had a premiere for the movie, I can’t remember. Excuse me. It was in the wintertime, and that was held in the lobby of the Lewis and Clark Hotel. And a lot of the actors and, and support crews showed up there, and they put on real nice, a little windowing, for the premiere. And, we got back to when we finished filming On the mountain, they had several shots they wanted to make along the river.

00:15:24:05 - 00:15:44:04 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I remember one of them was supposed to be, one of the last shots was supposed to be a night. A night shot of the train going up the river in the moonlight and so forth. And, it was on April the 10th. The reason I remember it was my wife’s birthday, and and I was telling everybody, we just get this thing going.

00:15:44:04 - 00:16:08:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I gotta get take my wife to dinner tonight, and I’ll be darned if they didn’t. however, they do it with their colored lenses. They film that night scene in In Bright Daylight, and then, in the movie, it was it was amazing. It didn’t look like it was taking them to the moon moonlight. But nevertheless, that was the big story.

00:16:08:26 - 00:16:31:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Everyone, of course, was kind of anxious to get in. I don’t think anyone wanted to work that night, so they used me as excuse. Come on, let’s get going. We gotta get this shot done so Clem can take his wife to dinner. So then Gordon’s car on the train had a big, loud speaker, public address system speaker on it, and,

00:16:31:28 - 00:16:56:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: he became quite widely known. Everybody on the on the outfit. Because every time we turn it on, we call the bill Clem. Bill, Clem here. Bill. Clem. no. They wouldn’t. They wanted to make this move. Move or some other move. And of course, with the number of people involved, you’re always worried about somebody getting hurt or trying to climb on a car when they shouldn’t be.

00:16:56:28 - 00:17:32:02 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: These old cars were actually moved them freight cars and consequently, there was no vestibule between cars and people jumping between cars and, crossing over top the drawbridge that was he, he, he was scared to death that something would happen. And we we talked and talked and talked to turn. And so the safety aspects of it and the people and I would like to think we did some good because no one did get hurt him anyway, in the case of some accident.

00:17:32:02 - 00:17:43:25 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Who would be responsible for that? under the circumstances, I, I’m sure it was written into the contract of the reserve. It was their their responsibility. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:17:43:27 - 00:17:46:08 Ron Jones: Yeah.

00:17:46:10 - 00:18:20:02 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: We did, when we left. Came back down. They wanted to shoot some scenes, which, incidentally, was the very beginning of the movie. This is the last scene that was shot. But arrow Junction there were they had built a little depot water and the little water tank and a couple storage saloons and so forth. And so, on this particular day, there were not going to be any movement of locomotives to speak of any till late afternoon.

00:18:20:04 - 00:18:40:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: So I came in to Lewiston and came home and, my son was there and said he had some problem with his furnace. So I, went up and helped him put a new, a thermal furnace. And then I came back to home. My wife asked me if I’m going to stay for lunch, and I told her, no, I’d better get back up there.

00:18:40:24 - 00:19:15:11 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And when I got here, they and everybody, including the the deputy sheriffs, county deputy sheriffs, were there to crowd control and as well as the special agents were everybody was out looking for me. And that is when they sent me down to the wardrobe car and dressed me up and what I call a sheepherders outfit, I know that they then told me I was going to be brakeman seamless Devlin in the in the for a few scenes in the movie.

00:19:15:11 - 00:19:45:07 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: So I that’s where I got my my movie career. Let’s say you’re you’re in the movie. Yes I was, I was the brakeman in the movie then and I, I had a couple speaking parts. And also, of course, the most dramatic one was worthy film. Me lying in the caboose was, holding a knife sticking out of my back when they did the end, when the train ran away down the mountain.

00:19:45:10 - 00:19:54:29 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: When you came back to see what happened, that breaking away didn’t set the brakes and there he was, laying there with a knife in his back so that we reached.

00:19:55:01 - 00:20:02:06 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I’ve got to see that movie again. Now that I know you’re in that and know a little more about it. right. I want to sit.

00:20:02:07 - 00:20:23:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: At the very beginning of the show, up here where it shows the, the train coming into town and, the troopers are on the train and so forth. I that’s me on the break and set the handbrake on the caboose. Now, I also had a break club and I kept well, the trooper don’t get the hell off the caboose.

00:20:23:28 - 00:20:51:16 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And and, that, incidentally, that that trooper was Scott Newman, Paul Newman’s boy, and he was not living and morning and the died. Well, I think he got a little bit odd dumb down there somewhere. And later on, they said he had an overdose of drugs or something, but he died at night. But that was Scott Newman.

00:20:51:19 - 00:21:17:20 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah. he was a he played the part of a the trooper that took the firemen’s place when the, the fireman who was Casey Tibbs, the rodeo rider, met his death up on one of the bridges. it seemed to me that, Tom rice was great for sports figures they had. They’ll get one big defensive tackle for Chicago Bears.

00:21:17:20 - 00:21:29:15 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: He was in in the movie, and Casey Kids was in the movie. Joe Camp was in the movie. Archie Moore’s boxers in the movie. I mean, there were a lot of sports figures in that movie.

00:21:36:29 - 00:21:40:16 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, I can’t think of anything else.

00:21:40:18 - 00:21:48:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, I mean, I don’t think we want to make any remarks derogatory otherwise, as far.

00:21:48:19 - 00:21:49:13 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: As you know.

00:21:49:15 - 00:22:12:18 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: But the Charlie Bronson was not, a mangler. Charles Bronson, the owner, as far as I’m concerned, that I get along real well with him. But I didn’t force myself on him, I didn’t I never did in any way, shape or form try to do it. There was a conversation he initially, so I but I got along fine with the gentlemen.

00:22:12:18 - 00:22:24:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: But, he was a loner. There’s no question about it. The others were more open. Oh, very much so good.

00:22:24:24 - 00:22:26:06 Ron Jones: I had a question. I kind of.

00:22:26:06 - 00:22:28:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Forgot, you know.

00:22:28:25 - 00:22:31:21 Ron Jones: The.

00:22:31:24 - 00:22:42:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Last thing I told you when you asked about coal consumption. But shoveling the coal on that steam engine up to Reuben, I think I told you that the other day,

00:22:42:21 - 00:22:43:10 Ron Jones: You know.

00:22:43:13 - 00:22:44:05 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Oh, yeah.

00:22:44:06 - 00:22:51:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: When the firemen had to leave and go back to Denver. Leaves orange blossom for firemen. He didn’t know how to fire the engine, so I played.

00:22:51:27 - 00:22:52:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: It.

00:22:52:21 - 00:22:59:00 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Up the mountain. You’re putting about six tons of coal all within half or so.

00:22:59:02 - 00:23:01:13 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Exercises you probably hadn’t had for a while.

00:23:01:13 - 00:23:07:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: But that’s right.

00:23:07:17 - 00:23:10:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well. hum.

00:23:13:20 - 00:23:20:06 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: How did they haul that locomotive in, cars? in Denver over to the air.

00:23:20:08 - 00:23:41:29 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They told it they had a diesel locomotive in there, and, they got on the Union Pacific and they got as far as Napa, Idaho. And, one of the driving boxes ran hot along the steam locomotive. You almost have to have a rock pit to do anything about a church in which you don’t have anymore. No. No rockets anymore.

00:23:42:04 - 00:24:08:04 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Like it used to be to maintain, maintain these engines. But it just so happened that was about the only place in Union Pacific that had a drop it and more condition company in the, in the civic to get that thing, fixed up in the days time and get it going again for them. But they, it did come in at greatly reduced speed.

00:24:08:07 - 00:24:40:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: However, rather than take a chance on, damaging these locomotives, Mr. Ramirez, that they loaded, flat cars going back, which he did, they loaded locomotive on a flatcar and, turned down real well, bulk. Unfortunately, it was handle on the rear end of a, well, long train. And somewhere over Wyoming we had a rockslide, just about lost.

00:24:41:00 - 00:24:47:07 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Look, there was a slight, slight damage to it, and he told me later it was back in operation.

00:24:47:12 - 00:24:50:08 Ron Jones: The town on the.

00:24:50:10 - 00:25:27:29 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Property and that locomotive. I’ve watched a lot of movies on TV since then, and I recognize that engine on on a lot of the regular series. I can’t think of the name of it now. But also, isn’t that one of Jane? Mr. Centennial was didn’t direct Centennial or, well, some of the author. It was, they had a kind of a mini series I think the name of was Centennial, and they started working up through the time the trappers in the Rocky Mountains until the later days.

00:25:27:29 - 00:25:35:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And sedan and, this locomotive was in that, in that, I think it was Centennial, Virginia.

00:25:35:29 - 00:25:42:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: So apparently this roar, roar were, were, were released this out for different movies.

00:25:42:16 - 00:25:44:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Right. so they had.

00:25:44:19 - 00:25:46:00 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: To keep them in good running shape.

00:25:46:00 - 00:25:54:15 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, and to comply with federal law, they had to be had boiler inspections and inspection. Everything had to be kept up. Does the use of.

00:25:54:15 - 00:25:57:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: The, tourist railroad other times or just.

00:25:57:29 - 00:26:26:15 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: well, he’s got a little park of some sort here in Denver, and he, he also won two of those. outfit cars or bunk cars that the the two of the veterans of the movie company had here. He bought two of those and all those down there to. So. And, I excuse me, I had to get a caboose, but I don’t think we can spare loaned the caboose.

00:26:26:15 - 00:26:33:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: We did give them. They totally demolished when they went off the bridge up on the mountain, you know, incidentally, that.

00:26:33:22 - 00:26:34:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Was a subdivision.

00:26:34:28 - 00:26:58:11 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Too. That was second subdivision. yeah. Come on. Cannot was the stuck drinker and, Oh, yeah. Come all told me afterwards that he’d done a lot of things under the water scenes. we’ve seen army tanks and everything else, but he said this is the most spectacular stone he’s ever done and turn up the best in it.

00:26:58:13 - 00:27:09:08 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: He did our, chemistry bridge crews, builders shoe fly off of the bridge, and they shot that thing out in the open space and really run through the air. Yeah, I remember that.

00:27:09:12 - 00:27:17:29 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: What what what did, do you railroad people think about, was that a shoe fire or just a spur?

00:27:18:01 - 00:27:34:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: The, spur, wasn’t it? Well, they built it. Oh, a partial bridge. Yeah, off, off the side and just shifted the track over there. and it was of the. It just blew up the end of that. Well, yeah.

00:27:34:29 - 00:27:45:05 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Right there. I was thinking, normally, no railroad would ever have a track like that where they. Well, downhill, wasn’t it?

00:27:45:05 - 00:27:46:11 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Oh, yes.

00:27:46:14 - 00:27:48:06 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Just go off the end.

00:27:48:09 - 00:28:05:11 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, right at the end of the bridge was camouflage. You couldn’t tell it was supposed to jump the track on the curve, blown out in the end of the canyon. And it was very well it looked like it did do really good.

00:28:05:13 - 00:28:09:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I guess I don’t remember it the way it was. It seemed to me right off the end of the track.

00:28:10:01 - 00:28:23:00 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, it did, but the end of the track was all come with large trees and branches and everything, and you could see I just used this and all of a sudden shooting out in the canyon. But he didn’t show it actually rolling off the the bridge was supposed.

00:28:23:00 - 00:28:23:25 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: To be running off a.

00:28:23:25 - 00:28:44:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Bridge. Well, it was well, I think it was 40. Jumped the track and left on the curve I don’t know okay. Because. I don’t remember now you’re maybe you’re right. But anyway, it was right at a bridge. It was a bridge there. They diverted the line up, you know, kind of a way. Just

00:28:44:16 - 00:28:46:00 Ron Jones: Yeah. And, you know.

00:28:46:03 - 00:28:47:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They had to build all that,

00:28:47:24 - 00:28:49:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yes. Cameras or.

00:28:49:23 - 00:28:53:16 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Camera? Spray built it. Yes. Yeah. after.

00:28:53:19 - 00:29:01:04 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And then we had to clean up the mess to, hold the pieces up all that canyon and load them in the front.

00:29:01:05 - 00:29:03:01 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Just something still down on the canyon.

00:29:03:01 - 00:29:12:25 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: So I understand that there was one set of engine trucks pulled down way down at the bottom, but I’m not sure if I have been down there. Oh, there’s too many rattlesnakes for me down there.

00:29:12:28 - 00:29:27:09 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Which, bridge was that? What number? You know.

00:29:27:11 - 00:29:45:07 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: 23 one, I believe. 23 120 3-1, which would be the second bridge beyond milepost 23, first one minute bridge. So 23, even 21 2022 and 22, 23 three.

00:29:45:09 - 00:29:46:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: This is.

00:29:46:29 - 00:29:47:15 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: this number.

00:29:47:15 - 00:29:48:09 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Goes.

00:29:48:12 - 00:30:09:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well from the marbles. And the other words, the milepost is 23, and then the first bridge beyond 23 would be bridge 23. The second bridge beyond 23 B 23 123 223, 300. All right. How did you enjoy your trip yesterday?

00:30:10:01 - 00:30:27:09 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Oh, fine. Yeah. I went up there to get them. Well, we don’t on up to get them.

00:30:27:11 - 00:30:36:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Following as a conversation with Ron Jones. This is August 11th, 1983. there belonged to the Indians. Yeah.

00:30:36:17 - 00:30:40:07 Ron Jones: And Jason for the railroad there for Indian property.

00:30:40:12 - 00:30:41:18 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, just up the road.

00:30:41:18 - 00:31:09:21 Ron Jones: In other words, industrial development. around Sparling, around that old sawmill there. The sawmill belongs to Potlatch, but, east of that and from the road to the river, that’s all Indian property. So I suspicion that the railroad did have to get something from the Indians when they came through. And when they went up, White Canyon there, up along that point, a creek that went through some Indian property.

00:31:09:21 - 00:31:15:05 Ron Jones: So I suspicion they did have to negotiate with the Indians.

00:31:15:07 - 00:31:22:13 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I wonder, be interesting to know what the arrangement was for what they paid Indians for.

00:31:22:13 - 00:31:34:24 Ron Jones: It, Well, you probably it probably be in the beach down the court. if you go down, you know Jim Lloyd, you know, she can show you where they’re at.

00:31:34:26 - 00:31:40:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I wonder if it’ll be something like, you know, free rides the rest of your life or or something like.

00:31:40:24 - 00:31:41:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: That on the road.

00:31:41:26 - 00:31:53:13 Ron Jones: Oh, he used to sell Indians tickets. I know he used to have the passenger train. They used to sell tickets to Indians. Maybe at some time they had free passes. I don’t know that.

00:31:53:17 - 00:32:02:25 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, I’m saying that sort of facetiously, because a lot of times the whether you may like or not, like Indians, we gave them pretty broad deal of time.

00:32:02:27 - 00:32:28:02 Ron Jones: Yeah, yeah, they’re I think if they purchased a property, they paid for it, in my opinion, and I suspicion they did. But of course, with the railroad coming in, the Indian agency people, I don’t think they would have stopped it. They probably wanted as much as anybody.

00:32:28:04 - 00:32:38:15 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Were they, agriculturally involved at the time? I mean, why would they want it anywhere.

00:32:38:17 - 00:32:41:29 Ron Jones: To travel and whatever would bring.

00:32:42:01 - 00:32:42:21 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Up.

00:32:42:23 - 00:33:00:21 Ron Jones: The Indians like to travel. I used to like to ride the train. take it on. Ride from here to camp. I quite a bit come here to Grange Hill. Up in that area. There’s a lot of property up there on Canvas Prairie the Indians still own, and they lease it all out to white people.

00:33:00:24 - 00:33:03:11 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I smoke someone from the airport.

00:33:03:14 - 00:33:17:06 Ron Jones: Well, for a while, the white people trying to buy it from them and, government agency put a stop to it. They finally the Indians would sell a piece of property, get the money, and then last about a week, but they spent or, you know, and.

00:33:17:13 - 00:33:19:25 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Then didn’t seem to be able to.

00:33:19:27 - 00:33:22:08 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Just plan and think ahead.

00:33:22:11 - 00:33:39:20 Ron Jones: And hear about that. they got money, money, money when they get their allotment or what ever it is, they’ll go downtown, hear a story, and I’ll go in there and buy $500 worth of clothes and one stop. They got $500 to spend it all for clothes. Well, I was just,

00:33:39:22 - 00:33:53:00 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Way, way back before white people came there. They didn’t have to plan too much ahead. I mean, been there and they go out and shoot something and I suppose you wasn’t sort of planning that. You do.

00:33:53:00 - 00:34:06:06 Ron Jones: They’re they’re doing some things that really isn’t too good right now. just a summer. They went up and shot some moose up the South Fork.

00:34:06:08 - 00:34:07:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Got moose down here.

00:34:07:29 - 00:34:11:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Oh, you want to have another Kansas first?

00:34:11:24 - 00:34:20:02 Ron Jones: well, I’m up. That’s up that Greenville. Yeah, yeah, on the creek. I was about to move something.

00:34:20:05 - 00:34:22:03 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I know that,

00:34:26:12 - 00:34:39:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I will you forgive me? I’ve met some of the people. It seems to me your position on the railroad was the auditor. Auditor. Like, for an agency?

00:34:39:29 - 00:35:03:03 Ron Jones: Yeah. Vern took the job when I retired. but I had two jobs. I also ran the freight office and, the lawyer. Yeah, the big boy, Tom Miles, got that job, and Vern got mine. So it took two guys to take over. When I left.

00:35:03:26 - 00:35:11:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yes, sir. I got the message. oh. It’s all right.

00:35:12:00 - 00:35:15:00 Ron Jones: we’re there, we’re there.

00:35:15:03 - 00:35:20:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: What sort of things that you do in the freight office? What? We are sort of regular. Standard.

00:35:20:19 - 00:35:21:06 Ron Jones: well.

00:35:21:07 - 00:35:22:10 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Duties or.

00:35:22:12 - 00:35:27:23 Ron Jones: The freight office, was just to handle all kind of freight shipments for.

00:35:27:25 - 00:35:31:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Could I ask, was this clear? are you Jen?

00:35:31:27 - 00:35:32:09 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I mean.

00:35:32:09 - 00:35:47:04 Ron Jones: Well, it’s mostly, Burlington Northern and Union Pacific. Once in a while. The only time a freight shipment was a pure chemist. Perry shipment was when it originated and terminated on the canvas, period.

00:35:47:04 - 00:35:49:25 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: So, yeah, I know, yeah, I know that.

00:35:49:28 - 00:36:11:03 Ron Jones: But you had it went off to Kansas Prairie. It had to be. Yeah, right. Okay. It had to be. Either you pay or be in one. It had to go on or come off through one of those lines. But if we ship it from here to Greenville that was pure Camas Prairie shipment. Same way with tickets.

00:36:11:05 - 00:36:25:05 Ron Jones: You sold a ticket to somebody to Portland. You paid. You told us to get somebody to go to Seattle and go through Spokane on the old northern city. No, no.

00:36:25:08 - 00:36:32:00 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: What sorts of freight were handled in the grain? Obviously. Lumber. What else?

00:36:32:03 - 00:37:00:28 Ron Jones: Oh, we had lots of cattle. Oh, they don’t anymore. But in the past we had lots of cattle, lots of sheep and sheep. And we’d have sheep trains out of grain. So I’ve had cattle trained in grain. I’ve had virtually cattle train out of Lewiston here in a big sale. I usually run some big falls sales down here, and we’d shipped 30 or 40 car of cattle.

00:37:01:01 - 00:37:04:18 Ron Jones: But that’s all truck. Now, I don’t go along.

00:37:04:20 - 00:37:12:25 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: how recently did you ship any kind of, rendered that sort of thing since. Oh.

00:37:12:28 - 00:37:18:14 Ron Jones: I can’t remember for sure, but probably up until, like, about 1965, somewhere.

00:37:18:14 - 00:37:19:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: We got a raise in 60.

00:37:19:19 - 00:37:23:12 Ron Jones: Five, 60, 70. Some words long in that order.

00:37:23:12 - 00:37:25:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And you lose that truckload of trucks.

00:37:25:23 - 00:37:55:14 Ron Jones: And, the way we’re situated here, any route out of here moved either down the river through around via Pendleton, you know, in Hamilton and around thataway, which was, around the Horn Way to get east. Most cattle way to East Omaha on highway in that area for seeding. And if it goes north of the civic, you gotta follow the canyon and go up Spokane and go around that way.

00:37:55:16 - 00:38:08:27 Ron Jones: So what it was, was, virtually one extra stop feedwater rest stop, which they had paid for, and time that.

00:38:08:29 - 00:38:13:10 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: We had to pay for our whichever railroad and the railroad and.

00:38:13:10 - 00:38:22:07 Ron Jones: All of the customer had orders for that, unload them and feed them and water them and reload them.

00:38:22:09 - 00:38:37:16 Ron Jones: And, they load them on trucks, hold them down, put them on the main line down at Napa. They did that for quite a while, and now, I don’t know. I think they’re hauling them further in trucks.

00:38:37:19 - 00:38:49:03 Ron Jones: Cattle wasn’t a moneymaker for railroads. It was. No, it wasn’t a moneymaker. So railroads really wouldn’t feel too bad that they don’t haul them because they didn’t make any money.

00:38:49:06 - 00:38:50:05 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Same with,

00:38:50:07 - 00:39:25:26 Ron Jones: It was more of a combination with other livestock. So, yeah, all livestock and railroads used to handle lots of livestock, but it never was a real moneymaker. You know. In some instances where they had. All these hog trains that haul hogs from, Sioux City or some place to, Spokane, Seattle, they probably made money, but just cattle shipments, like, were talking from the country to the feed yards.

00:39:25:28 - 00:39:31:26 Ron Jones: Too many claims are involved. oh. Well, I’m making.

00:39:31:26 - 00:39:35:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Claims for cattle who died because I’m not well, good or run.

00:39:35:28 - 00:39:44:03 Ron Jones: Injured. Sick train, you name it. Shrink. Yeah.

00:39:44:06 - 00:39:45:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Just in the name.

00:39:46:00 - 00:39:53:17 Ron Jones: Are they? Oh, they they claim you hold them too long and delay them too long and call them the shrink.

00:39:53:20 - 00:39:54:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I heard that word.

00:39:54:15 - 00:40:16:14 Ron Jones: Well, there’s a shrink, of course. The farmer loads him up with water and seed and brings him in. He sells all that through the sale yard. By the time they stand around getting the car right, it probably shrink, I don’t know, five, 10%. Well, that’s a big gain. Still it is.

00:40:23:02 - 00:40:30:13 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And the customers ever say, right, we’ll just hold reserve about the number water in for a day, and then I’ll buy them. Then they weigh them.

00:40:30:20 - 00:40:43:18 Ron Jones: Well, so when you go on a sale. Yeah, you’ll look them over and they’re wise enough. They’ll say, well, that guy is got too much. Fill it. Probably dock him right on the spot.

00:40:43:21 - 00:40:45:00 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: You tell him.

00:40:52:06 - 00:40:54:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: the pigs would come from where.

00:40:54:26 - 00:41:19:13 Ron Jones: The water pigs. Well, they used to raise them here, that they brought them out. Well, but I’m talking about, the hot shuttle trains that used to haul fat hogs, you know, all your bacon and stuff like that. I don’t know now what they’re doing because I lost track, but they used to have what they call pig palaces.

00:41:19:20 - 00:41:25:26 Ron Jones: Yeah, big double, the, roller bearing cars. And I got a.

00:41:25:26 - 00:41:28:03 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Picture when I took up in Montana.

00:41:28:06 - 00:41:37:19 Ron Jones: Oh, they they used to plant a lot of hogs on those, too. These slaughterhouses for pork and stuff.

00:41:37:22 - 00:41:39:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: No. Slaughterhouses. Porter.

00:41:39:21 - 00:41:41:19 Ron Jones: Oh, Spokane and Seattle.

00:41:41:24 - 00:41:42:18 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Portland.

00:41:42:20 - 00:41:45:27 Ron Jones: I see Ellensburg.

00:41:45:29 - 00:41:47:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Hogs are raised. Mary.

00:41:47:26 - 00:41:54:22 Ron Jones: The farmers here used to raise gobs. when I was a kid on the farm, we used. And that’s.

00:41:54:22 - 00:41:56:18 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Moved to where.

00:41:56:20 - 00:42:17:02 Ron Jones: Most of it back east in the corn country, Iowa. And some, there’s a few, but no hogs like we used to. I gave a farm, used milk cows and swap the hogs. I don’t do that anymore. I.

00:42:17:04 - 00:42:21:09 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Rather commodity. But this is fairly important. Yeah.

00:42:21:11 - 00:42:57:22 Ron Jones: Well, right here on the camera’s prairie, it was a pure farming. Agriculture. Economy. but, and Lewiston, of course, is the first and biggest lumber producer through Potlatch Mill out here. But after World War Two, lumber mills were starting a different place in Greenville. We probably had 8 or 10 and one and all this lumber then began to move out on the railroad.

00:42:57:24 - 00:42:59:02 Ron Jones: At that time, it was all.

00:42:59:02 - 00:43:00:09 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Real.

00:43:00:11 - 00:43:13:05 Ron Jones: Mill trucks. And Greenville, when I went there in 46, was pure agriculture. That’s all I took care of. Farm products.

00:43:13:08 - 00:43:34:23 Ron Jones: And when I left there, that was a sideline for the AG and take care of. The biggest part of the work was handling all the lumber shipped. So lumber. Produced more carloads really, than farm.

00:43:34:26 - 00:43:39:00 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, cause that’s what you think of it as nowadays.

00:43:39:03 - 00:43:39:21 Ron Jones: Yeah, I.

00:43:39:21 - 00:43:41:03 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Have, I had.

00:43:41:06 - 00:43:48:12 Ron Jones: Of course, a pulp mill out here now and in conjunction with the lumber mill, the big produce. Yeah.

00:43:48:14 - 00:43:58:18 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: So do you think, our current recession was something or a depression or in the coal mills, like grains.

00:43:58:18 - 00:43:59:18 Ron Jones: From the sawmill.

00:43:59:20 - 00:44:02:02 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Will pop back or. Well, they.

00:44:02:04 - 00:44:03:03 Ron Jones: what.

00:44:03:06 - 00:44:08:07 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Is that business declining just generally, or is it holding its own?

00:44:08:09 - 00:44:30:04 Ron Jones: Well, the lumber is not being produced in the small mills or, the big mills of gobbled up the little man. Oh, man. So Greenville ended up now with one sawmill where they did have, like I said, 6 or 8.

00:44:30:07 - 00:44:59:21 Ron Jones: But, one mill that there saw was more lumber, though. So when horse mills used to cut out from 35 to 50, 60,000 a day. Now that saw mill up, I don’t know what it produces, but I can judge it probably puts up 2 or 300,000 boards in day, and the Lewiston sawmill out here, they they run 800,000 a day through the they’ve run a million.

00:44:59:23 - 00:45:01:27 Ron Jones: That’s a lot of walk going through and so on.

00:45:01:27 - 00:45:07:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: That’s just what I watched from up at JP as to that. That was pulp. Pulp was was.

00:45:07:16 - 00:45:18:07 Ron Jones: Well JP is all plywood. Plywood. Yeah. But logs shipping down the logs come down from there. But then that big meal up there produces plywood. Yeah.

00:45:18:07 - 00:45:21:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: But what they were loaning to sit down here would be pulpwood, wouldn’t that.

00:45:21:22 - 00:45:24:16 Ron Jones: Well just logs just log. Yeah.

00:45:24:16 - 00:45:43:10 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Just they were all but not as much as they did. You know, I have more recently but they were sure seemed busy there yesterday. The move working right along you know. Yeah. We have trouble coming in one way or the other to get them to the road.

00:45:43:12 - 00:45:46:09 Ron Jones: Yeah, they are now, things have.

00:45:46:14 - 00:45:53:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: You think that’s going to hold well under their resources like back out a ways. They still got plenty. Yeah. I didn’t.

00:45:54:01 - 00:45:55:21 Ron Jones: Like the green stuff.

00:45:55:23 - 00:45:58:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And back. Well all right. Yeah.

00:45:58:29 - 00:46:15:08 Ron Jones: Well, back in the nest. Perce forest back. Greenville. There’s really an abundance of timber. as long as the Forest Service people will put it on the market that it did for. Cut it.

00:46:15:10 - 00:46:20:03 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: What type of cutting do they do? Selective or just the whole section?

00:46:20:06 - 00:46:50:00 Ron Jones: Well, no, they put a lot up for sale. They’ll go in there and they’ll tell them what it is. It’s either Ponderosa white fur for whatever, you know, whatever it is, and they’ll tell them. And of course, they’ll bid on it, because the forest, Tom, there’s so many board feet of this species when they walk into that space, knew exactly what the.

00:46:50:02 - 00:46:53:10 Ron Jones: And they know pretty close before they ever go in what they’re going to get.

00:46:53:11 - 00:47:03:09 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: In regard cause that situation is still holed up from, the ground up there on the.

00:47:03:12 - 00:47:10:17 Ron Jones: Forest line, still alive. So.

00:47:10:20 - 00:47:12:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: one’s.

00:47:12:29 - 00:47:14:01 Ron Jones: One’s.

00:47:14:04 - 00:47:15:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Like John, Saint Mary’s.

00:47:16:00 - 00:47:22:14 Ron Jones: Mary’s River railroad. Yeah. Yeah, they took that over. When the Milwaukee fold is up.

00:47:22:16 - 00:47:24:01 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah, they.

00:47:24:04 - 00:47:41:04 Ron Jones: Took over the old, Well, the old, Washington, Idaho and Montana Railroad. Yeah. And now they. And they call it what, the Saint Mary’s military.

00:47:41:06 - 00:47:43:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Saint Mary’s northern. Is that what it’s called?

00:47:43:14 - 00:47:46:16 Ron Jones: Think that’s what they call them? You know.

00:47:46:18 - 00:47:48:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Super tree here and there.

00:47:48:20 - 00:48:19:26 Ron Jones: Yeah. The old Doug. Yeah. And him. Yes. He belonged to the Milwaukee Railroad. When the Milwaukee folded, it went well. Yeah, yeah, but part of it went, Potlatch bought part of it. they operate and I believe, I’ve forgotten the bend took some of the. Down around Potlatch. I’m not sure.

00:48:19:26 - 00:48:30:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: If you you know, the Saint Mary’s River railroad goes from both, to to, Avery. No. Off to,

00:48:30:21 - 00:48:33:17 Ron Jones: To Saint Mary’s. Saint Mary’s. It goes on, they.

00:48:33:17 - 00:48:36:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Go back to Avery, and then they on over to Plummer. Yeah.

00:48:36:26 - 00:48:39:22 Ron Jones: There’s no,

00:48:39:24 - 00:48:42:06 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Connect with Ukiah. Farmer. That would be, I guess.

00:48:42:06 - 00:48:45:04 Ron Jones: Yeah, that would take connection power.

00:48:45:06 - 00:48:52:08 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They still use that route that the old Milwaukee route from Plummer into, Spokane.

00:48:52:10 - 00:49:13:00 Ron Jones: Well, probably, Potlatch. Just deal. And I’m not sure about other industries on that road, but that, Potlatch has to serve them, too, if they’re still there. anybody that, was in business there for a potlatch, take care of them on that railroad.

00:49:13:02 - 00:49:16:16 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: From, the Milwaukee. What was the Milwaukee.

00:49:16:19 - 00:49:17:02 Ron Jones: on that.

00:49:17:02 - 00:49:17:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Line?

00:49:17:28 - 00:49:21:06 Ron Jones: Yeah, it was on.

00:49:21:09 - 00:49:24:16 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Oh, no, wait a minute. That goes.

00:49:24:19 - 00:49:25:09 Ron Jones: Now, that’s not.

00:49:25:09 - 00:49:28:29 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: The one that goes through Roseanne. Yeah, there’s a no no.

00:49:28:29 - 00:49:30:22 Ron Jones: Roselli was it was the final.

00:49:30:24 - 00:49:31:08 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: One, wasn’t.

00:49:31:08 - 00:49:45:03 Ron Jones: It? It burns. And then that runs for Spokane. The Lewiston goes through.

00:49:45:05 - 00:49:51:01 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: you know, there’s some gaps. and I don’t know.

00:49:51:03 - 00:49:54:07 Ron Jones: Yeah, those are helpful.

00:49:54:09 - 00:50:02:10 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Can’t think of any questions to ask.

00:50:02:12 - 00:50:06:13 Ron Jones: How’d you come out with your pictures? To get all you wanted?

00:50:06:16 - 00:50:11:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I, I don’t feel like I have all I would like to have. I can’t really.

00:50:11:22 - 00:50:12:16 Ron Jones: Tell until I.

00:50:12:16 - 00:50:19:20 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Get back home. Now, this time, I just get them all out and see what I’ve gotten.

00:50:19:22 - 00:50:22:21 Ron Jones: Think I’d like to get more?

00:50:22:23 - 00:50:32:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: That’s one thing I felt right from the beginning, and work was once a photograph.

00:50:32:27 - 00:50:44:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Where I can get more contemporary ones, you know, the last ten years, that’s no problem. But further back, it’s not easy to find.

00:50:44:21 - 00:51:02:25 Ron Jones: The Tribune down here has, old paper issues. It does. That did have some pretty good pictures of the old original depot and. The old trains came in, things like that. I was down there last year.

00:51:02:25 - 00:51:03:21 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And picked.

00:51:03:21 - 00:51:04:15 Ron Jones: Out five.

00:51:04:17 - 00:51:18:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Photographs from the not, you know, also, Potlatch has some old photographs of Shays, and there was no logging.

00:51:18:16 - 00:51:22:01 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And they’re very good photographs. professional.

00:51:22:01 - 00:51:26:14 Ron Jones: Photograph. I’ve seen a lot,

00:51:26:16 - 00:51:29:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: That individuals can take and sort of snapshots, but they’re not.

00:51:29:23 - 00:51:40:24 Ron Jones: Good enough to use. So, just too bad, but they’re. Well, yeah, individual photographs probably are tied. You can reproduce too.

00:51:40:26 - 00:51:48:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: well it depends. Some of them are good now. Some of them point to some are quite good. You know, they’re not professional. I can’t answer that.

00:51:48:23 - 00:51:51:02 Ron Jones: Yeah, they work all right.

00:51:51:05 - 00:52:01:05 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well majority of them are not not that good. They didn’t have very good cameras.

00:52:01:08 - 00:52:03:07 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: A friend, real son of a gun, actually.

00:52:03:07 - 00:52:20:25 Ron Jones: Sure. The other boy brought him home here about 3 or 4 days ago. Somebody dumped them off. He worked for this guy that runs those cattle stuff. Like dump them off, dump that old barn. Oh, he brought one of them home.

00:52:20:28 - 00:52:23:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: It must be a boy because you’re so big.

00:52:23:27 - 00:52:30:18 Ron Jones: His getting, fed up just a little bit. And feed me milk and food.

00:52:30:21 - 00:52:37:09 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Get a good, good home here for,

00:52:37:11 - 00:52:39:07 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah.

00:52:39:10 - 00:52:40:03 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, I can’t.

00:52:40:03 - 00:52:44:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Think of anything where,

00:52:44:21 - 00:52:49:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Can you think of something important to say?

00:52:50:01 - 00:53:16:28 Ron Jones: Well, I never in my life ever thought I’d see the day. And every station on the, Greenfield branch is closed. Well, you know, that just amazes me. The amount of business that used to come off of there was tremendous. The tonnage down the hill, I believe, was, 3000 times that. Remember it, I believe was 3000 tons.

00:53:17:00 - 00:53:18:01 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: For a train.

00:53:18:01 - 00:53:47:25 Ron Jones: For a train on a cow. The mountain, percentage was about 2.5% or so. Pretty steep forever. And consequently, they limited the tonnage. And they could they’d have to sit out at Rubins and catch them on the next train, or send an extra up to get them, and that it was that way for years and years. Tremendous amount of business came off the original line, and now it’s down to virtually nothing.

00:53:47:28 - 00:53:49:21 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Just once a week.

00:53:49:23 - 00:53:53:10 Ron Jones: Just hard to believe.

00:53:53:12 - 00:53:54:01 Ron Jones: Well, like.

00:53:54:01 - 00:53:59:06 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Cattle, business has gone and the grain would be just the numbers, you know.

00:53:59:07 - 00:54:30:09 Ron Jones: Lumber and grain. Of course, with the farm business it was branded wheat, barley, barley shipments used to be real good and a lot of brewing by myself. Then Montana started plowing up all their sheep pastures and started raising grain. They raised brewing barley on the freight rates a lot less. So they supply, Milwaukee and Shack up here and all those Saint Louis, those areas with the brewing barley.

00:54:30:11 - 00:54:35:19 Ron Jones: Yes, they have a bum crop. Then they come here.

00:54:35:21 - 00:55:11:06 Ron Jones: That’s what happened. But now the Montana area supplies and and, we used to have a lot of peas, a lot of seed, you know, besides wheat, barley. And that’s, I don’t know, funny crop. We used to raise a lot of, Austrian water. Call them black peas. And they were shipped down the southern territory all over from Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Carolinas.

00:55:11:06 - 00:55:34:14 Ron Jones: All those down that ship, hundreds of thousands of cars of peas for most families per. And they plant them in the fall. The spring. The problem under not for fertilizer and cream in a crop. And they apparently found a way they can raise themselves. That’s mama. I never.

00:55:34:14 - 00:55:38:13 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Realized. Oh, that my name up there on the.

00:55:38:15 - 00:55:41:18 Ron Jones: It’s funny how things change.

00:55:41:20 - 00:55:49:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, what originally induced the railroads to build was was lumber. Was the. And some rain.

00:55:49:22 - 00:55:56:16 Ron Jones: Maybe wheat borrowing oats and, lumber and shingles, but, you know, shady shingles.

00:55:56:18 - 00:56:02:02 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: You know, I should do. I soon saw two very small places.

00:56:02:02 - 00:56:05:13 Ron Jones: Yeah, but you don’t. You shipped on the railroad? No.

00:56:08:07 - 00:56:15:20 Ron Jones: Very seldom. Never seen anything like that. Shipped on the railroad.

00:56:15:22 - 00:56:40:17 Ron Jones: But now the, railroad here, at least in this shipping containers. From Potlatch, this, paper mill is producing most of its production. Or a big percentage of it goes overseas. So they load it in containers and ship it to Seattle. Portland. Loaded on boats.

00:56:40:19 - 00:56:43:06 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Paper.

00:56:43:08 - 00:56:43:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Pulp.

00:56:43:19 - 00:56:57:00 Ron Jones: Wood pulp for board. It’s, the white, frozen food cartons, stock milk bottle socks that they’re made.

00:56:57:00 - 00:56:59:02 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I saying

00:56:59:05 - 00:57:07:28 Ron Jones: It’s a high quality paper for. and that’s going in these containers and going overseas now.

00:57:08:00 - 00:57:09:04 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: To Japan.

00:57:09:05 - 00:57:12:11 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Were long gone.

00:57:12:13 - 00:57:17:03 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Where where did they come back here?

00:57:17:05 - 00:57:31:05 Ron Jones: Yeah, yeah, they have a extruding process. They spray plastic here. The very high temperature on the paperboard, and then it makes a plastic coated. You’ve seen the temperature.

00:57:31:07 - 00:57:34:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well I mean, no cartons and so on in a.

00:57:34:17 - 00:57:43:10 Ron Jones: Rowboat right there in the garage. you can see the plastic right on it. Yeah.

00:57:43:12 - 00:57:49:29 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: with that one, they, colored to make it into cartons with that plastic thing.

00:57:49:29 - 00:58:05:22 Ron Jones: What seals it together or it was. Well, they were making, paperboard milk cartons and wax coating. remember you used to drink milk. You get a little piece of wax in your mouth.

00:58:05:24 - 00:58:06:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah, that was good.

00:58:06:23 - 00:58:26:26 Ron Jones: Yeah. Then the plastic people started making plastic milk bottle, and the paperboard people were loosened up. So they took their paperboard and spray coated it with plastic. And now they mostly are back in the milk bottle business. I don’t know, you know.

00:58:26:29 - 00:58:35:00 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, what did I do? You know, did they have to use a cement of some sort besides that plastic coating? Or would that under heat seal it?

00:58:35:05 - 00:58:56:15 Ron Jones: I never, ever ask them about that. I’ve seen them do it. As far as I know, they just spray that plastic. It’s a very hot liquid. And I think when it hits, paperboard, it just sticks them. That’s it. I don’t think they have to use water. No, I meant.

00:58:56:17 - 00:59:06:16 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: they’re sending up flood. They’re they’re sending out rolls of the stuff. You mean big one that was made into cartons for milk. So they have to.

00:59:06:18 - 00:59:07:12 Ron Jones: Cut in half.

00:59:07:12 - 00:59:08:09 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Shape it and.

00:59:08:09 - 00:59:10:17 Ron Jones: Stick together. They stick it together.

00:59:10:21 - 00:59:21:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, well, they stick it together. Well, that’s where I was wondering. Does the plastic that the plotlines put on there, does that seal and make this stuff get together, or do they have to do something besides.

00:59:21:16 - 00:59:24:15 Ron Jones: oh yeah, I don’t know. I never seen them make the bottles.

00:59:24:18 - 00:59:26:01 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah.

00:59:26:04 - 00:59:35:01 Ron Jones: They had a plant in orange, California, but Potlatch sold that.

00:59:35:03 - 00:59:40:05 Ron Jones: I don’t know. They may still make some bottles down there sometimes.

00:59:40:07 - 00:59:42:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: When you say bottles, do you mean.

00:59:42:27 - 00:59:43:18 Ron Jones: Square cart?

00:59:43:18 - 00:59:48:20 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah, yeah.

00:59:58:03 - 01:00:06:18 Ron Jones: Well, on the Kansas prairie, did you get pictures of the old bugs they used to run before they got? yeah, I’ve got a.

01:00:06:18 - 01:00:09:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Couple of bottles B 12 or B 14.

01:00:10:03 - 01:00:10:19 Ron Jones: Yeah.

01:00:10:19 - 01:00:14:02 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I don’t have one of the RDC that fall on that.

01:00:14:04 - 01:00:30:02 Ron Jones: And, that should have been the easiest one to get. Yeah. That just cleared up. Oh. yeah. That run until damn near the 1970s. 68. oh, yeah. I may have one coming.

01:00:30:02 - 01:00:37:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: There’s several people who are to send me photographs I don’t have. They.

01:00:37:19 - 01:00:43:03 Ron Jones: I don’t know if I ever took a picture of that thing. I’d better bet I didn’t.

01:00:43:05 - 01:00:53:04 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: When those when you’re when they’re right there and all that. You never think of that, you know, I mean, this comes in every day or twice a day or whatever. You don’t think to take a picture of it.

01:00:53:06 - 01:01:07:26 Ron Jones: Well, I used to take quite a few pictures. Slides mostly. Not a picture slide. Yeah. But, I don’t think I took any of that RDC.

01:01:07:28 - 01:01:12:08 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, it wasn’t no different from all the other. These. And then Bud made them all.

01:01:12:12 - 01:01:12:24 Ron Jones: Yeah, I.

01:01:12:25 - 01:01:24:01 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Much made ones and twos. And what did you have a three? one was the some, the other was state passenger.

01:01:24:04 - 01:01:34:18 Ron Jones: I think the, were a standard they used and pretty much around the country probably still are usually few places.

01:01:34:20 - 01:01:42:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: no one person release use computers. These railway up north out of Vancouver, up to Squamish.

01:01:42:28 - 01:01:44:14 Ron Jones: And up and down for a.

01:01:44:14 - 01:01:46:01 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Very small time.

01:01:46:27 - 01:01:55:06 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I heard two or 3 or 4 together, depending on what the traffic is. And. What made that.

01:01:55:06 - 01:01:57:11 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Trip?

01:01:57:13 - 01:02:12:01 Ron Jones: You know, that’s. No, not on that. I was just thinking. I don’t remember riding on that. My family did. Nelly and the kids rose all the time. I don’t think I did.

01:02:12:03 - 01:02:27:02 Ron Jones: I don’t think I ever did. They rode a lot more than I did. I put them on the trains, some Spokane, and then I go get them. But we used to sell quite a lot of tickets. when I was a great deal. I at times, I suppose not tickets.

01:02:27:05 - 01:02:37:11 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: What would be the size of a, a good, fairly full train going up our average train. And the good days?

01:02:37:18 - 01:02:44:04 Ron Jones: Freight train? No. Passenger. Oh, they never carried more in a baggage in the past.

01:02:44:06 - 01:02:45:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Oh, okay.

01:02:45:19 - 01:02:49:11 Ron Jones: Engine and two cars. That’s all. That was okay.

01:02:49:14 - 01:02:52:29 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: There never was much, passenger traffic. no.

01:02:53:01 - 01:03:09:22 Ron Jones: Not that, years ago, I guess they used to have enough to fill up a couple, but, We never. I never did see it.

01:03:09:24 - 01:03:19:03 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: in the good days of freight would be a one train a day. 20 tons from Greenville. Yeah.

01:03:19:06 - 01:03:22:18 Ron Jones: Yeah. Well, every a three times a week.

01:03:22:21 - 01:03:23:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Three times a week.

01:03:23:14 - 01:03:47:27 Ron Jones: Yeah. It was, a Monday back Tuesday situation, except during, harvest and. Lumber kept things going pretty good. And then you get a big harvest. Man. They had to have been. You had a train of the. You run a train up every day.

01:03:48:00 - 01:03:56:23 Ron Jones: And sometimes we’d have to run an extra to Rubins or Craig Month to pick up the times. In those days.

01:03:56:25 - 01:04:00:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And three cars would be the maximum tonnage. And bring down and bring it.

01:04:00:14 - 01:04:01:13 Ron Jones: Down the hill.

01:04:01:15 - 01:04:04:16 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah. Down the hill. but how much roughly.

01:04:04:22 - 01:04:08:13 Ron Jones: Well up would depend on what the locomotive could pull.

01:04:08:16 - 01:04:12:07 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: No, I mean, how much it you bring down in a day.

01:04:12:09 - 01:04:18:20 Ron Jones: Well, 3000 tons would be,

01:04:18:22 - 01:04:20:01 Ron Jones: In carload.

01:04:20:04 - 01:04:23:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Oh, no, I don’t mean that. That’s 3000 tons a day would be.

01:04:23:23 - 01:04:36:11 Ron Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Per train. So that’s for training for train. But there were other words. It wasn’t safe break wise. Yeah. To move more than that with, a single train.

01:04:36:11 - 01:04:39:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: But did they have more than one train a day? 3000.

01:04:39:24 - 01:04:51:10 Ron Jones: Sometimes. Okay. I’m tired. Yeah. During heavy shipping and harvest.

01:04:51:12 - 01:04:52:21 Ron Jones: 3000 tons.

01:04:52:21 - 01:04:59:05 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Might the. Well, 40 car cars.

01:04:59:05 - 01:05:06:20 Ron Jones: A car was weigh about 25 ton. And the load in it 5075, 80 ton of car.

01:05:06:22 - 01:05:13:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah. So, about 40 cars.

01:05:13:25 - 01:05:26:23 Ron Jones: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, probably about 40 cars. But I think they also were limited to the number of cars. And I can’t remember now.

01:05:26:25 - 01:05:39:04 Ron Jones: They used to limit to. I’d say kind of got an old timetabling right. Don’t get me miniature I mean do. Sure. Okay. go.

01:05:39:04 - 01:05:40:02 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Get.

01:05:40:05 - 01:05:42:07 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Sort of mini.

01:05:42:09 - 01:05:44:00 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Iced tea okay.

01:05:44:00 - 01:05:46:08 Ron Jones: Pretty nice right.

01:05:46:11 - 01:05:48:19 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: If you.

01:05:48:21 - 01:05:49:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I.

01:05:49:25 - 01:05:57:05 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Who use my brother’s care from the third.

01:05:57:07 - 01:05:59:21 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I could tell he was in the history there too.

01:05:59:23 - 01:06:01:21 Ron Jones: Right.

01:06:01:23 - 01:06:08:03 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: That’s good. That’s Tommy boy out on the bike.

01:06:08:05 - 01:06:15:05 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I could tell him about the property we bought up there.

01:06:15:08 - 01:06:20:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: With the joined the farmers brewery.

01:06:20:27 - 01:06:24:07 Ron Jones: Their farm was alongside the Cambria Railroad track.

01:06:24:08 - 01:06:24:18 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah.

01:06:24:18 - 01:06:51:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: So you heard my brother name? Yeah, I’ve heard since, I don’t know, a farmer became citizen railroad come through area and they run the fence line. And then in the direction of that property for three acres, everything went. And then we bought that third, we opened disaster reserve land.

01:06:51:24 - 01:06:54:18 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah.

01:06:54:21 - 01:06:56:09 Ron Jones: But,

01:06:56:11 - 01:07:02:05 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: You don’t think you don’t want.

01:07:02:08 - 01:07:07:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: To do any.

01:07:07:27 - 01:07:12:05 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Any better for it was a grasshopper golf course.

01:07:12:05 - 01:07:39:00 Ron Jones: And do the western freight trains. This is something, we’re supposed to stop new Craig’s ten minutes and longer. A sound to be over. He did college soccer, Jack. 15 minutes coming down that, Rubins to Craig College sack Hill. Oh, man. Breaks all the time. Those fields used to get so hot you’d see that train. You couldn’t see the cars and just be solid.

01:07:39:00 - 01:07:53:05 Ron Jones: Smoke from the grease off the wheels is so hot that smoke is just around the car. You can hardly see, and,

01:07:53:07 - 01:08:07:26 Ron Jones: They’re supposed to stop and cool the engines. It they’re cool wheels. They’re new. Craig. That’s halfway down where that tunnel comes out, and she switches and comes around. Yeah, that’s right there.

01:08:07:29 - 01:08:09:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: How long is supposed to stop?

01:08:09:28 - 01:08:32:12 Ron Jones: Ten minutes. Every time there’s Craig Junction, then, Craig junction up on top. Yes. Of the twin rooms and the new craters on the, you know, Craig was right there. we’re number one tunnel have been curves and they’re track reversal. Because remember, one time the.

01:08:32:14 - 01:08:40:05 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I know you made it down there on the bottom.

01:08:40:08 - 01:08:45:09 Ron Jones: Where the heck. Oh, tonnage.

01:08:45:12 - 01:08:53:17 Ron Jones: Tonnage. College. Fact. Reuben.

01:08:53:20 - 01:09:26:23 Ron Jones: 550 ton per year. And the Jeep nines are used now. The old, steam engines used to haul 500 in D.W. class in the U.P.. MacArthur class was 550. That’s the tonnage they can haul up the up, you know, and the jeeps they use now a 625.

01:09:26:25 - 01:09:39:06 Ron Jones: I’m still looking Romans to college. Sack 60 cars. Maximum 4000 tons. maximum 4060 cars or 4000.

01:09:39:08 - 01:09:42:13 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: That regardless of whether it’s steam or diesel.

01:09:42:13 - 01:09:47:20 Ron Jones: Yeah, that had nothing to do with the steam engines on that.

01:09:47:23 - 01:09:49:24 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Huge breaking.

01:09:49:27 - 01:09:55:18 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I would think it would have something to do with it. The cars, the diesels had dynamic braking and fun.

01:09:55:20 - 01:10:11:27 Ron Jones: Well, the dynamic Briggs helped that. They came in later. and that helps. All right. But you talked to these engineers up here that. It helped, but it wasn’t all that much.

01:10:11:27 - 01:10:12:27 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Not much difference.

01:10:12:27 - 01:10:22:14 Ron Jones: And,

01:10:22:17 - 01:11:07:12 Ron Jones: Back in 54 and 1954, we still had. 324, 344, 314 and 74 down the river. That’s one two. That 314 was the Spokane train. 74 those of you in train. And 324 and 344 we start in Greenfield. That’s when that timetable was 1949.

01:11:07:15 - 01:11:16:21 Ron Jones: Wasn’t long after that things started falling apart on the passenger.

01:11:16:23 - 01:11:22:19 Ron Jones: And in 64, we had,

01:11:22:21 - 01:11:34:25 Ron Jones: Agent over eight miles from Cottonwood in Ferdinand Chrisman. Reuben.

01:11:34:28 - 01:11:47:15 Ron Jones: All not not well, that boy and the ticket agent Spalding, who had been in Cambridge 100 ticket.

01:11:47:17 - 01:11:50:11 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Ferdinand Bollinger, you know Spalding Greenfield.

01:11:52:26 - 01:12:02:14 Ron Jones: The twins are doing on Cottonwood. You assume, Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s in.

01:12:02:16 - 01:12:05:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: You don’t have a. I picture the station that’s falling down.

01:12:05:22 - 01:12:14:17 Ron Jones: You know, it’d be fun. It was a little,

01:12:14:20 - 01:12:38:13 Ron Jones: Shack. Kind of, same architecture type. That mill depots had. Just a little shack, about 10 pounds each. Square. Yeah.

01:12:38:15 - 01:12:41:02 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: What do you. Is a little too.

01:12:41:04 - 01:12:52:21 Ron Jones: Darn many worms and just beat them up, I bet I’ve killed three dozen. Tomato. One big old thing demonstrated. Hard to find, hard for me to see.

01:12:52:28 - 01:12:56:13 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: All we do, all is. Look, I’ve killed you. My.

01:12:56:16 - 01:13:07:25 Ron Jones: I got out got.

01:13:07:28 - 01:13:34:18 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I’m now talking with Vern Jackson, and this is about the Nez Perce Railroad. Okay. I’m on this first railroad now. I was up there. You’re gone. Saw the. All these boxcars on their previous to that was the railroad operating. And then they fashioned, you know, right up to the point where they put the boxcars on there.

01:13:34:20 - 01:13:41:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: This is, this is an that’s peripheral. You’re right. And,

01:13:41:16 - 01:14:15:29 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: It’s owned by Joe Lawrence. Yeah. And, he chip, basically his own products out of there, which is wheat. He’s a big farmer. He owns a railroad. Well, in 19, 1981, the latter part of the year, big companies like the Union Pacific and Burlington Northern formed, sometime back, a rail box company which built, boxcars and each company.

01:14:16:06 - 01:14:20:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: But he had so much money on them.

01:14:21:01 - 01:14:52:10 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: In the business, he began to slack off. They didn’t have, yeah. The shipments for these rail boxes. So they had to store them someplace, or they embargoed Joe Lux’s railroad, which is are correct. great. Nash first railroad. You’re in rail. But who embargo the rail box rail box embargo denials. Nobody. And, embargoed, these, embargo against railroad who environment?

01:14:52:10 - 01:15:15:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: His railroad. Well, I think Joe Luck did, had, to say out there they needed a place to store these cars. If they stored them on their own track, they were paying high demurrage. So they, in order to pay the lower the they got a railroad that they could embargo and, store them at it.

01:15:15:25 - 01:15:43:07 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And, re first started a dollar and a quarter profit. We were right at the point where I was asking you who embargoed the Nez Perce Railroad. Yeah. So but I think it was on the deluxe. They show that they embargoed his railroad, destroyed these cars did, in order to get the payment for the Ran on each card, rather than paying high demurrage.

01:15:43:09 - 01:16:15:11 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They got it. That I think it started a dollar and a quarter a day, and then eventually dropped down to, $0.75 a day per car, whereas they’d be paying $10 on their own roads for demurrage every day that they hold those cards. And then it doubles after so long. But so they embargo our railroad, put an embargo on it, and store cars at a regular rate, for demurrage.

01:16:15:13 - 01:16:43:08 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah, but still, I’m got this clip. When you say they embargo to his railroad, who is they? That, the owners of the cars. Oh. Oh, he allowed them to do that. Right. And that’s the owners. And the might it might be Union Pacific and Burlington Northern and and all the all the railroads that went together on these cars went them.

01:16:43:10 - 01:17:09:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: What’s some of the legality of that? What is, how do you how can you embargo a railroad? What do you have to go through to do that? What allows you to have a terror set up, canceling all your business and and and using as storage there is a tariff basically set up for that federal tariff. I don’t know what a tariff means.

01:17:09:22 - 01:17:44:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: What do you. Well, it’s, they all railroads operate under tariffs. What is the word tariff mean? Oh, it’s, rates for demurrage, rates for logs. It’s called a tariff. you know what they charge for the rate? yeah. And I was a tariff set up and bar going this railroad, and it comes over the wire all the time, embargoed certain railroads for certain items, and, embargo means just take over sort of the.

01:17:44:19 - 01:18:23:22 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah. And they take over his railroad. They start 1500 cars up there and, they were there and tell, you know, fall of 82, fall of 82 when they, first put their, PUC in Boise, Idaho, got on that, grow locks for not handling, his business. And, some farmers wanted to take it all in their cars and, and they, your railroad was all tied up with 5000 cars.

01:18:23:28 - 01:18:57:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah, they had to belong to these other. And, they, plainly wasn’t maintaining his track and not and not having pretty much service. Yeah. And, So consequently, the, I don’t know whether the PUC ordered or not the cars were removed from Lexus or, wrecked or railroad, the Creek Mountain or, the National Recreation.

01:18:57:17 - 01:19:28:21 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well, it seems, we’re taping this very it seems that, that there’s sort of conflicting things here in the Valley. The Public Utilities Commission says one thing. And who they have, they have control of, of, how the tracks are maintained, how their if, the shipments are being handled right now and, since, the,

01:19:31:19 - 01:19:59:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: What they call the deregulation of the railroads, the PUC is more or less taken over, the operation of the of the vehicles. Okay. Now, what arm of the government, like the PUC, is one arm of the government, right? What arm of the government allows the railroad to be embargoed wherever there are? Interstate Commerce Commission? wanted to put out the embargo.

01:19:59:25 - 01:20:33:21 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: So in a sense, P or C and I, CCR, sorry if, is that correct? That’s correct. Okay. And, and how how come if the ICC can, can let it be embargoed, why can’t they tell A, B, or C? Well, we wanted to say, do you see where it is? is the fact that there was no, church and being, no, service being, afforded to farmers over at first.

01:20:33:24 - 01:21:08:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And that’s what it was. you seek God on what you said. Could you put it this way, since he is classed as a common carrier, right. So if he is so class, then he’s got a carrier. Right. And this overrides ICC is allowing it to be in barcode. And that’s what they claim. And and the fact that he wasn’t, they was, claiming that his railroad wasn’t being kept in, in, decent shape right now.

01:21:08:19 - 01:21:36:04 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: You’re saying how it was and. Yeah, rocks under the track and barely able and, this is where the PUC stepped in, and I or I go along with, Joe Lux. They probably there were there wasn’t as they’re only two cars or machinery probably get all year. And if you could follow them over there and then, take this money that it gets off these rail boxes, he’d make a lot more.

01:21:36:04 - 01:21:55:18 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I can see it’s only a good business practice on his part. Okay, now that up until the time the rail by the line was embargoed was the operating. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you have any idea how much how extensively? No, I would say.

01:21:55:18 - 01:21:58:27 Ron Jones: That if he had.

01:21:58:29 - 01:22:31:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: if he had, 30 cars a year of wheat out of there, it would be, in May 3rd of ours. That was in the last. In the last 4 or 5 years. Yeah, but he was there, available to serve the farmers until it was embargoed. Well, and then you got to look at the fact that the, farmers are taking these semis out in their field.

01:22:31:28 - 01:22:52:06 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They’re trucking it into the Port of Lewiston and dumping that and putting it on barn. Yeah. And, all all Joe was going to get was whatever is the revenue was whatever occurred on his truck. Yeah, I understand, all right. Yeah, yeah. which would be very little. Yeah.

01:22:52:08 - 01:22:55:16 Ron Jones: Know, you know, I.

01:22:55:16 - 01:23:09:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Want to ask something. You can think now. You know how long he has owned? Oh, yeah. He’s the owner for,

01:23:09:16 - 01:23:37:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: At least 30 years or longer. Well, one question I wanted to ask him if I was talking with him was why did he buy it in the first place? Yeah. I mean, a good business man at large in those days. The hand on his hair, he’s a big farmer to handle, is weighed into the, the same way the tractors are handling and look and he had to have a way of getting this week to market.

01:23:37:28 - 01:24:06:29 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: He had his real put in there. Yeah. He didn’t put it in. They didn’t want it in. But, he walked the railroad. To me, that would be more expensive than paying the truckers to purchase food out. Well, at that time, they didn’t have tractor running like they do now. Yeah. That’s right. And, big semis running. And, he had to have a way to get in that was grain out of there at a cheaper age.

01:24:06:29 - 01:24:37:20 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: He bought the railroad and he had a chance or there’d be other commodities in it. And he not only handle grain, but he handle machinery and and the and the next person. And, some lumber. That’s how many miles long as I, I think it’s about 50 miles or, do you think he’ll he’ll file for abandonment?

01:24:37:22 - 01:24:39:03 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I don’t think he ever will.

01:24:40:17 - 01:24:44:20 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: No.

01:24:44:22 - 01:25:18:12 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: That’s a good tax write off or his concern. And, I don’t blame him for bargaining on railroad either, because, chance for him to, he made more off notes. Oh, yeah. Companies are storing those people’s cars. He’s going to cost these other companies. $10 a day after the third day for the rail box for demurrage.

01:25:18:14 - 01:25:46:10 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And, and from his point of view, he made a lot more money than he would have operated in here. if they were you, all Union Pacific cars, they could start on their own line and, not pay any demurrage. But there are there are mixed companies, you know, they’re no one company owns them. You know, they’re going up to the small railroads and embargo the railroad and, store them at a lesser rate.

01:25:46:10 - 01:26:18:02 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They might be agree upon the rate. And, that’s the reason for doing it. You know. It, when when when did this environment go into effect? Here’s an 81. When do you know when, It was Broward Ron going to retire. And he retired in, July 1st, 1981. So early part of the early part of the year.

01:26:18:04 - 01:26:46:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I think sometime around March, they embargo into effect and there’s a printed embargo on it comes over the teletype of all the railroads, go lucky the railroad is embargoed and further storage of rail boxes. And they, put those cars in there 25 at a time. They put them in 25 at a time. Camas Prairie handled them to the Craig mark.

01:26:46:16 - 01:27:17:14 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah. And they put them on the side track. Craig Mount and Joe lot small engines put 25 of them in there at a time and. Well, not his, his cars. I don’t know how many cars his little engines, have on their little caterpillar engines, but the railroad had take 25 a day up there and set out and, set them out.

01:27:17:14 - 01:27:43:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: And I don’t know how long they kept your locks and get them over there. well, he’s got three locomotives. Yeah, they’re all real small ones, you know? And, I don’t know if they’ll work in multiples or not. Yeah, they do, they do. Well, then maybe he’s able to sell 25 cars. Stretched a long ways. and miles of track was covered with real bombs.

01:27:43:28 - 01:28:10:13 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah, yeah, I’ve got pictures of that. so in fact, they were they’re stored roughly a year and a half, weren’t they? About that. Yeah. Well, they were stored, still stored there when I retired. And that was in March. And I think they’re still there. And when he was up there in June or. Yes. Well, July, they they started taking them out in the fall of 82.

01:28:10:14 - 01:28:17:28 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Yeah. So that’s a year and a half. Yeah.

01:28:18:01 - 01:28:30:08 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Well that’s that’s enough. And

01:28:30:10 - 01:29:05:26 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They’re, It was the economy that that goes out. right. So, where you could see, miles of track, miles of cars set on these sidings by in the Pacific, the Burlington Northern and just miles of miles of cars. What what railroads do you know of are involved in the ownership of Rail Box Corporation or the Union Pacific is involved in it?

01:29:05:29 - 01:29:15:17 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: The Burlington Northern is involved in it. and, Southern Pacific also.

01:29:15:20 - 01:29:18:20 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: and

01:29:18:22 - 01:29:49:16 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Else and longer American railroad Association, involved maybe a, I had a buyer, a real boxer, a kid who got the farm, told you what railroads were involved. Well, what were they used for? Sort of shipments for the for. Oh, I give them the milk for variety or shipments. merchandise cars, paper, cars and lumber. Lumber.

01:29:49:19 - 01:30:01:10 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: They all had wide doors and, machinery them and,

01:30:01:13 - 01:30:13:15 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: I think you’re primarily, soft. how do you call it?

01:30:13:18 - 01:30:30:29 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Oh. Shipments like, paper, finished products. Yeah. Then what did they do? Leased these to companies.

01:30:31:01 - 01:30:31:21 Ron Jones: Who want to.

01:30:31:24 - 01:30:51:23 Hal Riegger, Bill Clem or Verne Jackson: Ship or lease them to railroads. But how did they do that? Well, the, companies that use them work. They run short of cars. Yeah. a user may pay, for the use of those cars. Yeah. Which would go back into the corporation rail.