Other Faces, Other Lives

00:06 I didn’t go back to Bellevue because I had nothing to go back to really. I went back to see I was leasing my land. My neighbors all already owned theirs prior to the war, that I had leased it in live there quite a while my dad didn’t. He was going to buy it, but it got down to within about $500 Now that’s going back 1928. That $500 separated whether he was going to buy that farm or lease and we kept leasing it, year
to year lease. So when I went back everything that I had left, farm equipment, furniture, household belongings, you know, because we was only allowed to carry a suitcase a piece. There was somebody living in the house, not the person that I left it in charge of. He showed me a government bill of sale for everything. So I couldn’t… there was an irrigation system on a little farm too and stuff. So I go back and had to start from scratch. There was nothing there. So I stayed out in Idaho. Right so I happen to be one of the few that was from Bellevue. In fact, I’m the only one from Bellevue that’s still in Idaho. All the others back went back home

01:35 Well, why don’t you tell us a little bit about how you got to where you live, you know?

01:42 Should I start at the very beginning at the time I was evacuated or go back or

01:46 whatever horses brought to

01:49 When war started, I was evacuated to camp Pinedale in central California. After a short two months, stay at this assembly center. I was transferred to the to Tule Lake relocation center.
Where did you start off from? Bellevue Washington and start out at Bellevue Washington. Then at Tule Lake I spent from July through till April 1 of 1940 43 April 43. And I left as soon as I was allowed to leave the camp on a temporary work permit. And there was a representative of a sugar factory located in Nampa, Idaho that were looking for workers to work in the beet fields in Caldwell and Nampa, Idaho. Therefore I signed up for that and left Tule Lake with a group of 14 some of them I knew. I was the only one that was married at the time. So we went out to work there work the summer there. And then the fall I went back to a camp that was camp Minidoka.

03:18 Because free wine, so let’s leave it because we might might use a picture later but okay, save everything you can with government. So in the spring,

03:30 okay, did everything (unintelligible)

03:31 get through and it says (unintelligible)

03:37 LT one. (unintelligible) When the evacuation order came, I was living in Bellevue, Washington. And the whole community was moved to camp Pinedale in California. And the mid middle of May 1942. We spent two months there and then we were transferred to a more permanent relocation center which was Tule Lake relocation center. And I spent the winter there from August through April and left the camp as soon as I was allowed. It was only a temporary work permit but I moved out to Ontario, Oregon and worked for a farmer there doing various farm work in the beet fields, onion, picking potatoes. And then in the fall in November, I joined my mother and two younger sisters who had been transferred from Tule Lake to camp Minidoka. I joined them and spent the winner there. And in January of 1943, my son was born in Minidoka relocation center and I left on a permanent work permit to Caldwell, Idaho. I went to work on a farm there for four years. And then I started farming on my own, sharecropping. Saved a little money so I could pay down on a farm… I bought a small farm and bought a little farm equipment and started farming on my own in 1951.

05:34 And then, July of 55, I was approached by a man that owned a bowling center in the town of Nampa.

05:48 And he said, Why don’t you buy a bowling center, I want to… I got one for sale. You only have to buy half because I’ve got somebody that wants to buy the other half. Well half made a little easier to handle. And since I was spending so much time bowling anyway, I was farming but I spent a lot of time. So I thought it over. He only gave me one day to think it over one night. He said you think about it and talk it over with your wife. And because there’s two three others that want, which you’re in line, the person about the first half wanted me as a partner. So my wife and I talked to her we decided to give up the farming and try bowling business. I was probably one of the very, well I know I was the first in the state of Idaho. One of the first in the whole country. I think there’s one or two others that was in the bowling as a bowling proprietor. 1955 in the country. Japanese
Yes. Japanese American Yes. And I stayed in that business for, until 1982. Spring of 82. I sold out my interest and retired. Then after a year of retirement, I got tired. And I’m now at the present time working in a bowling center. That brings us up to the present time as far as time spent.

07:23 Are you aware or do you know the forces that brought your parents over to America?

07:29 Yes, I think most of them that came over, our parents that came over, were looking for a better life. I think like most Issei parents, they came with a dream of making and saving money quick and going back to Japan. I think that was their intent. From what I have gathered talking to older people, most of whom are gone. My dad died at the age of 60. So I was 21 at the time. But he told me that that’s what he planned to do. But in the meantime money didn’t grow on trees like they thought it was going to be, so he was then he started a family. So you know it was the gave up idea of going back. I think that’s probably the way most of the families that settled here. Some of those that came later to the country before immigration was stopped. Some were educated people. And they started businesses when they came here. But the very first ones that come over we started working on farms started working on railroad started working in coal mines, mining. My dad came by way of Hawaii and he spent a year in Hawaii. I’m not sure what year he came but my my mother came in to Seattle in 1917 in December of 1917. My dad never did go back, get a chance to go back to Japan. My mother did go back in 1940 Just before the war. And in fact, while she was there they were because she didn’t go back to November of 19… for the 1940 and in the spring she came back in December, February of 1941. And even then, they were saying that there was about the last passenger ship to come back from Japan to Seattle.

09:33 How many brothers and sisters do you have?

09:36 two brothers and two sisters

09:38 and where do you go?

09:40 I’m in the middle of two older brothers and two younger sisters. What are they out? They’re in Japan? The older brothers the younger ones. The two younger sisters are both retired and they live in Caldwell which is a short distance from Nampa.
They work? Yes, my sister, the older sister’s husband was a farmer, native of Idaho Falls.

10:09 And after they got married, he came to Nampa to farm. And my younger sister married to someone I knew when I was in my teens back in Seattle.

10:23 And he worked. He worked in the farm for just two years. And then he went to work for the post office. And he retired from the post office here about four years ago.

10:41 And how about your own family? Your wife?

10:46 Oh, my wife, she worked and she retired four years ago. The last 20 years she spent working, she was a medical secretary at at a hospital in Nampa. And I have a son that was born at the Minidoka relocation center. And he is teaching. He’s a math teacher at Nampa high school. The high school that he graduated from he went back after five years of schooling, went back to teach and that’s the only place he’s taught. His wife is also a teacher. And she’s raising a family now. So she’s not teaching the last few years. She… have two grandchildren four and eight, going on, he will be shortly.

11:45 In respect to your family of origin. Do you feel that your parents raised you more along Japanese traditional longer American than others?

11:55 The only Japanese traditional lines was in did send me to, you know, to Japanese language school which the people the community of Bellevue built on their own. No government funding and that Japanese language school which was one day a week. And then he entered me in judo classes. We had a Bellevue dojo, which was a judo club. And that was in existence from about 1935/36 until the war started. And I did that, and I did get a first degree black belt before the time I graduated high school. But aside from that, no, there was nothing we… they raised us as Americans.

12:52 And how about your son, your sense that you instill traditional values?

12:57 Yes. Yes, that part is the one thing I have insisted on and taught him when he was growing up as crucial years was to respect the law. Have respect for teachers, and any government official, you know, and treat everybody like you’d like to be treated yourself. And he had no problem making friends. Like I said, I moved quite a bit there until I settled down to my present residence. Seemed like about every four years I was moving to another house, another farm. And, um… but by the second day, he’d bring people kids over his age and he knew them all. He knew all the kids on the street, he had no problem. He’s one of the very few, he was the only student in school during his great school days. Nampa high school when he graduated in 1962, there was only three other Japanese American students in the class. He’s the very first person of Japanese descent to teach in the Nampa school system. There was a little little trouble getting started. But no, he’s teaching math, it’s only teaches. Once a trouble, it was a little hard to get a job. I imagine it was partly because of his Japanese descent. But in four years after he started, he was voted the most outstanding educator in the Nampa school system, which I was quite proud of. And he’s been an officer and in the National Education Association held various offices. Think he served as president one term.

14:55 What was the community like when you first… (unintelligible)?

14:57 The area around Nampa and Caldwell. They were needing us bad, as far as workers. I did get, should I say thrown out, I was out of a restaurant on two different occasions. One was on the Fourth of July 1943. And that was in Nampa. Then one was in Jerome, Idaho, when I went to the camp Minidoka to visit my mother and sister there. I stopped, it was a noon hour.

15:37 So I thought I’d stop and my wife and my son was about year and a half years old.

15:46 Stopped at a restaurant there and didn’t get waited on. And finally the waitress came over and said, Are you Japanese? And I said Japanese descent Yes. Well, we don’t serve you. So I think she was more embarrassed than I was. But we left on a couple of blocks and look like much nicer restaurant went in there and never paid us any different attention and waited on us. And from there on after any town or city I went to, I always looked up the best restaurant there was in town seemed like we got better treatment. Kind of, you know, try to hold back and didn’t go to the best one. Went to a nice clean looking one about it. But I knew it wasn’t the best in town. But my experience has been since then. But it isn’t true now. But those days going back to the 40s. That was true.

16:42 Was the prejudice more pronounced in restaurants? Or did you experience it?

16:46 Mostly in restaurants. I would say that I was fairly well received. And presently I’m well known.

16:58 How has the Nampa and Caldwell area changed?

17:04 Well, it’s changed in populations grown so much the two towns are almost together now. City Limits. One side says Welcome to call when other side says Welcome to Nampa.

17:16 They are only eight miles apart. I would say that we are pretty well accepted. There’s a few that are ignorant. That’s, you know, you’ll find that no matter when or where you go.

17:36 But if they get to know us, I think that’s the main thing. I’ve been trying to educate everybody I get a chance to forget to three people who listen to me I tell them about my experiences. I didn’t do that. A few years back, but more recently I have

17:52 Why do you think that you’ve achieved?

17:54 Well, I think grown getting older and and I changed my mind about a lot of things. I thought, forget it. Forget about the past, but I’ve been thinking it’s more important to tell the story to the public. I think if they understood us, they will understand us if you tell them the story. I personally have been well accepted being in a business that like I said earlier that no one no Japanese Americans ever started. Just a very few just a handful even today, one in Seattle. And it was couple in Los Angeles. That’s the only ones now there’s several. I was well accepted by my fellow proprietors I served 12 year term continuous, secretary treasurer of the Southwest aero bowling proprietors Association, the 1981 82 I served a year term as a president of the Idaho proprietor association may sound like I’m bragging but I did. I was invited as a member of the service club. And after about four years, I served six year term as secretary treasurer of the Exchange Club of Napa and upon my retiring, I have a life membership in the exchange club. I also have a life membership in the morning proposed Association of America for my 30 odd years is continuous membership. And in the bowling business, bowling career, I blocked you Three local halls of fame. I belong as a charter member of the Nampa men’s bowling Association Hall of Fame in 1971, and in 73, I was a member of the Idaho scratch voters Association, Hall of Fame. And then 1985 I was voted into the idol bowling Council Hall of Fame No, I’ve never owned a 300

00:13 Very, not very often

00:25 asked them to the farmer in that area or does

00:31 he know that it’s a pretty big percentage, especially in Eastern Oregon and Western Idaho, especially Ontario area in the Nampa Caldwell area oh the percentage is not that big. I don’t even I hate to venture to say what percentage I’ve never studied that way. Ontario Oregon has a lot of Japanese American farmers. Because I know California because it’s such a deadly pharmacy so well and there’s usually other fears there. There has been sort of an undercurrent I’ve talked to my brother in law’s one of the biggest farmers was biggest farmers. He’s not a farmer. Now he was the individual biggest farmer in the Ontario area. He is not farming nobody is in the produce shipping business onions, solely shipping onions to all parts of the country. But I would say the Ontario area was early earlier accepted. More so than an apple called malaria. That’s my own No. idea. But generally speaking, we’re as well accepted in the community by everyone as well as anywhere else in the country, I believe better so than some other places.

02:08 I was also invited to join Elks I complained about it because I couldn’t so when they moved the restrictions and said we could well

02:25 I joined so I pendant very active, but I did join us very first nice day to join the Elks Lodge in Napa.

02:37 Getting back your bowling career that seems to be part of a central part of your current self esteem self a little bit about your ability as a bowler

02:47 go I was probably a little better than the average. As far as bowling goes. I want to have a few titles. But being a proprietor I wasn’t trying to be such a good bowler as being a good proprietor. I currently down to a 12 pound ball. Most good bowlers throw 15 or 16 pounds but I’m kind of my age and my back
problems I’m down to a 12 pound ball but last year I average 180 which is above the mean the average bowler for male bowler is about 160 between 55 and 60 so I’m still above the average but

03:36 Wilson pretty high scores

03:37 over the years I bowls few high scores

03:46 everybody expected of me you know in the business you can ball every day you know you don’t have to work you could just practice everyday you ought to be good. Everybody thought I should be averaging 200 Plus, which I only did one year even today they think well you get to practice every day for nothing. No wonder you’re good. That isn’t true. I don’t go bowling becomes work now. Three games a week is the most I bowl and and it’s because I’m in the business.

04:24 My highest sanctioned in league play was a 290 game, but I’ve had 299 four different times in matches which are not sanctioned you know. And bowling for money, but not in league or tournament. So they don’t mean as much if you do it in a sanctioned competition, which is a league or tournament, it does mean a lot but the difficulty is the same.

04:59 One of the things In the destructive as you have mentioned with the person who wanted to sell the loan, we had another buyer and the other virus specifically

05:09 asked. Yes. Well, I used to go with him. And I ended against him also, he bought out half interest. First, a year before I entered the business and mainly because I knew him I guess. And he was Caucasian, but he picked me for wanted me for a partner. And there was two three others that wanted the part of the business. He asked me to be his partner, that’s why I did and through he died of a heart attack in hordes was several years ago now.

06:00 One of the reasons why I asked this is that, he said it was like thinking

06:04 5155 I bought in 55,

06:09 because one of the propagandas that was swirling around during the war, before the world, Japanese Americans could not be trusted. And so here’s the southern they trusted us and wanted me to do.

06:23 I had known him for a few years through bowling. I started bowling in Nampa 1948. So I actually knew him for seven years before I got into the business. And until then, I was farming.

06:40 He’s a member program. Where are you right now? strictly a farming community?

06:45 No, there’s manufacturing. There is a manufacturing but farming is the backbone of the economy. This kind of thing. Okay. The changes is they make trailers mobile home. Zilog has been in Napa for seven years. And they’ve made plans to enlarge double their capacity. And Zilog makes computer chips and
parts. We have the world’s largest sugar refinery in Napa, the Amalgamated Sugar Company. And of course in the Colville area, Jr. Simpler, which is well known for potato processing is headquartered in Cowell. And one of the largest one of the larger supermarket chain, well known here also is the Albertson Joy Albertson headquarters are in. Of course, that’s Boise, but we call that home two or 15 minutes away. So that whole southwest Idaho, senators are on there.

08:07 Sorry for sticking around a little bit. But another thing that interested in when we’re talking was in recent years, you want it to tell you your story. But exactly what I was wondering if you were involved at all, in the rica scandal?

08:24 Yes, I was. I happen to be the area coordinator for the redress in the last four years in southwest Idaho.

08:39 The reason I think education is necessary because a lot of people still have wrong conception about us. And the reasons they use for the evacuation order have proven to be false. Subsequently, a lot of this was not known until 10 years ago. So I do I don’t hesitate anymore to tell people about the experiences that I experience. If you would ask me this 15 years ago, I wouldn’t have Well, like I say, I’ve kind of mellowed I guess. I gotten over the disappointment I had and went through hardships or went through on economy evacuation. But there are people that need to know and people that would understand if they got the story. But if they just read propaganda, and listened to it, and never been told, they would carry that on they’d be teaching that to their children and continuously grow. This experience that we went through should never happen to any group of people hereafter

10:01 My father is one of those who does not like to talk about the Capitol, and how difficult it was for you to get individuals to come and talk about the experience.

10:12 Well, I had some close, you know, friends and relatives who spent time with me, and we settled out here in Idaho, at the same time, but we get when we get together, we don’t talk about the time we spent, I think it’s just natural to try to forget something that’s a bad memory. It doesn’t disappear. But some, some occasion like this, I have to stop and think back, you know,

10:44 was it difficult to get into the

10:47 yes, a lot of people, a lot of people thought that we should leave it go, you know, not bring it up again. And for a while when this talk started, I was undecided. Myself, but more I think about it. I think it should be I thought it should have been sought after. And so I became active in working towards it. On the JCL chapter level and the district council level of the JCL. Our area belongs to the inner mountain District Council have the JSL fact I’ve spent over 20 years as an officer of one source or other for the last 20 years plus continuously. So

11:46 what is going to change

11:49 mainly in from our area around here is to raise funds for the group to pursue it in Washington DC. It has taken a lot of time and money over 10 years. Until last year.

12:16 Also during the Warriors, when the camps were in, were being filled with Japanese Americans in tourney’s, the inner mountain District Council, at which time I was not active, because that was going back to 1942. Three was the only area in the whole country that carried on the work of the JCL because all the others were in camp. The bulk of the JCL membership was in Oregon, Washington, Idaho. And they were all from the West Coast and they were in camps. So they weren’t able to do anything. Fun work of raising money and carry on the work of it was all done out of Salt Lake City, which was the national headquarters until we moved to San Francisco. To those people that were relocated in the inner mountain district did most of the work of raising funds and carrying on the work of

13:25 where were people from who relocated for work remotely. And

13:33 most of the people that were in Minidoka came from Seattle area. Seattle and Tacoma, there’s a few from Tacoma. But the bulk of the internees at Minidoka from Seattle,

13:49 USA, most of them went back and

13:53 most of them went back. Here’s a few that settled. Heart Mountain in Wyoming. There’s only two or three families that relocated and stayed there that I know there might have been a few more but that’s a small, a very small percentage. There’s a few from Minidoka that resettled in Idaho. Twin Falls has a half a dozen Nampa Boise area has I don’t know the exact count but probably two dozen families most of them are farmers at one time, then since then, we have I have a brother in law was worked in a post office he retired his older brother was a postmaster call for five six years before he retired. Yeah, most of them in the farming industry in agriculture.

14:55 What was like one thing?

14:58 Camp life ice went to winters severe cold that we weren’t used to coming from Seattle area and real hot summers that we weren’t used to the lack of privacy and that was one of the worst. Of course the cramped quarters. When I went back into camp I had my mother and two sisters and my wife and I baby in the 20 by 20 foot room. So you can imagine no running water, just bare lightbulbs hanging down from the ceiling, no partitions no toilets. It was a community toilet. I guess by the time I went there, it was a little better used to be they didn’t have toilets. It was outdoor without water. Those that went in opened up the camp and then a dhoka had the worst of it. That was dusty when they got there in August, July and August Dustin ankle deep then in September October the rain snow came and it just got mud. You leave your shoes in the mud you know I mean it slip off of you know sidewalks but by the following summer, the ingenuity and and in character the Japanese American people both young and old, transformed that camp to a garden. They planted flowers. And of course the farm itself. There was a quite a bit of quite a few acres of farm to raise the crops to feed the people there it was almost self sufficient as far as farm products go. And when they left the camp and the camp was close, most of the yards had flowers and everything growing on it. They had sidewalks were put in the roads were blacktop. Today there is one standing barracks that used to be the fire station and is still standing I talked to a farmer that homesteaded this one of the area’s there and he was the first one to homestead or after we left and I think he said 1940s six or 45 He’s lived there continuously since it was a desert but it’s it’s all nice farms now. But when when the camp was first opened up there was just out it’s only about two miles from the highway but you can’t see it from the highway. There was water handy right there close by big canal there. So they pumped the water in and made the desert bloom.

18:02 Do you know where other counts similar to Randolph in terms of the residents actually making a flower and grow?

18:11 Pretty much so I understand. I’ve read some articles on it. Just about everywhere did that Yes. You know the Japanese like flowers and plants. And they were good with it. So they did that

18:32 well, I didn’t have to raise him in camp when he was two months old. We moved out a camp and he’s never been a resident never camp.

18:43 Question If you were under under guard for the camp, how you

18:50 Okay, good question. Camp men adore Minidoka was one of the camps that have very little internal problems with men with authorities and their internees there. I have never heard of any incident general run ins with the governing body. They let us govern ourselves anyway. But I mean, anyone trying to escape, something like that never happened at Minidoka. It had happened some other of the other senators. In fact, I met recently, as last year. A man who’s retired now and living in Idaho Falls, said that he guarded three camps. He was a youngster. 19 years old. He was an MP at all three of them.

19:48 And he was at Tulelake gave him the most trouble. And he was also at Topaz and so Southern Utah

20:02 there was one or two incidents there. But he came to Camp Minidoka and he said, no problems at all there.

00:18 It’ll be interesting part of what family was wanting to do. Being a small we were saying mid sized or smaller family. But if it was a bigger family I could see… you had to have about eight or 10 before you got to apartments, five and six, seven were crowded into one. But you know 10,000 in a mile square and barracks type housing at one time in a Minidoka was the third largest city and state of Idaho. The high, the high school they had a high school for two they graduated two classes in Minidoka. And it was the biggest High School in the county.

01:12 (unintelligible)

01:28 Oh to leave the camp. You had to get clearance first. And they gave you a pass and you presented at the gate there was only one entrance to the camp guarded course 24 hours a day by by army personnel. That you showed them that you got the clearance to go. And if you had your own transportation you could have gone but most of them had to go by bus. There was a daily bus left the camp went to Twin Falls, which about a half hour ride one way and then brought you back towards evening. So by your personal things, you know that you wanted, although there was canteens in the camp itself that personal needs were you could buy. They fed you and three times a day but anything else you had to have on your own. You had to get on your own. One thing you didn’t like about it was in hot or cold weather you had to line up to eat breakfast and lunch and dinner and you had to wait to take turns getting your laundry done. You had to wait to the latrines we call them in line. And the lack of privacy and breaking up to families is probably the hardest thing to endure.
Tempers tempers would flare Yes, when you’re cramped in that kind of quarters. It’s natural. You know. Brothers and brothers, brothers and sisters are probably I never had any problem. My family but I’ve heard where they did have. And it was because they was put together so close together for so long without the privacy. I imagine that was the main cause. But there was a hospital furnished you know and there was after they got settled. They had a Community Recreation Center where you could play games and ping pong and stuff like that. They had a high school gym, they even played basketball and baseball and softball at Minidoka. They went and played the local teams around there.
Were you involved in them?
No, I wasn’t I wasn’t in

04:00 (unintelligible)

04:10 Okay, that’s you that was I was approached by channel to the CBS affiliate in Boise to be interviewed about my experiences in Camp Minidoka and my evacuation experience. And the young lady that called me to ask if I’d be willing to, gave me her name. And her last name… I just asked her Did you happen to have a father by that name? You know, that lived in Nampo. She said yes. And I said what is first name be such and such, said yes. She’s How do you know I said well, he worked for me in 1952- 53 when I was farming. This young lady is 23 or four now and she did the interviewing. So it was real small world. Then the manager of the station, channel two, the young man and his father happened to be a 19 year old MP, and he guarded us at Camp Minidoka. And so we went to Minidoka. And on site, I was interviewed. Myself, my wife and my sister and her husband, the four of us were interviewed there. That was two years ago,

05:38 (unintelligible)

05:41 He is the father of the manager of the station.

05:45 Was this one you’re talking about was that (unintelligible)?

05:48 Yes, he went and served as guards on two other relocation centers. And he said Minidoka center was the easiest one easiest job, he had no problems whatsoever there. He had some problems with the other one. Other people involved and he would have people would come in, with a people from Twin Falls came, we went to Twin Falls. And like I said, I went to a restaurant there and a little baby in my arms and a son and they brought, you know, baby chair for him and weighed on us. And it was real good. I got treated. Only just a couple of instances when I was refused services, only thing I could remember. I’ve been well received, well received everywhere. Maybe I’ve been fortunate because I’ve talked to people that didn’t experience that, you know, I had some bad experiences. But I’ve been fortunate I, only for once or twice been kicked out of a restaurants.

06:50 Why was people in the camp asked to go out for food for those as well, if you want to go back?

06:59 We could only go back on a permit. This was not to permanently go out. The permanent leaves did not come about until 1943-44. Then they were trying to, the government wanted us to go up. They knew that there was a mistake made that there never was a necessity for these camps. And so, you know, after the first one year after the war, well, then they were trying to get us up and relocate us and they they helped relocating. A lot of them went to Chicago. Chicago had a population of 20,000 former camp internees at one time, I don’t know what the population is now.
Why Chicago?
I don’t know why Chicago, more so than New York, more so than any other major city in the Midwest. Although former evacuees are in every city in the country now. Detroit, Cincinnati, Cleveland. St. Louis. Denver has a big population.

08:14 One of the reserves wondering what types of thoughts and feelings you recall having while you’re in camp, part of the reason for using there was some sort of suspicion about your country. How did it feel?

08:33 I was bitter to be put in camp without being charged with anything. I didn’t think that, I thought maybe my mother, being an alien, might be but she didn’t know anything. She was illiterate anyway. But being a citizen and without being charged of any wrongdoing, just because we were Japanese to be picked up and told to be a certain place and put in camp without a hearing or anything I knew was wrong. But the, we did have a few leaders, Japanese leaders. And they decided to go along with the order and not give them any problems any trouble that way by having to have less guards, you know, during evacuation period and help the war effort that way to go along peacefully. I think today, if the same thing happened you’re gonna have all kinds of trouble. But we were a young population. And many of the leaders at that time affiliated with the JCL have been criticized In the past years, and I, I don’t go along with that. I think they did the right thing to help

10:14 Each other almost like their willingness to go along here was proof of the patriotism.

10:23 Patriotism and try not to give him any problem, because if it did, just imagine what it would be if you had every community in on the West Coast and three West Coast states rioted or stuff like that refuse to go, there’s only three that refused to go. And they did it on their own. And they knew they were going to be picked up. But they were testing the law. And they all three have been vindicated since. But it took a long time. It only been last two or three years that they were, the Supreme Court okayed it, but they spent two three years in jail in order to do that. Of course, they were all lawyers that, more or less reason they were testing it.

11:07 How old were you?

11:09

1. I was 23.

11:14 What happened to the people that didn’t want to go along with the orders?

11:23 To relocate? Well, the government helped them get back to wherever they wanted to go. But when they closed the camp, they had to go someplace.

11:37 Supposing in camp, still a problem? Some people didn’t want to be there. I know some people didn’t like what was happening. What was one of the guards to help them?

11:52 Well, if they didn’t want to go there, you you are allowed, eventually you’re allowed to leave. But of course, they weren’t in a situation they weren’t able to leave, financially, because most of us lost everything. And we hadn’t got anything back at that time. So but if they were able to when they had a place to go to most of them left. There was a few that didn’t want to go and they stayed there until the cancer closed. I really don’t know exactly how they dealt with those few people. There was a few 100.

12:33 unintelligible

12:40 Tule Lake was, Tule Lake was the center that most of the dissidents, I should say, those that didn’t want to go out, didn’t want to relocate. And some of them want to repa-.. repatriate to Japan. Some did some wanted to. They were all kept at the Tule Lake center until it was closed.

13:05 I think one of the questions that was asked, for example, someone in (unintelligible) was trying to escape or causing some problems with that person who can particularly?

13:15 If yes, if there was such a person but to my knowledge and never once they said those were to protect us but you know, those machine guns were aimed at the camp inside not away from the camp. There never was one attempt to leave hunt camp or the Minidoka Center. One of the boundaries was a pretty big pretty deep in the summertime irrigation canal. And I know if you could swim it, you could have got across but you’re going off to a desert. I don’t know if you to, rattlesnakes and takes himself out there in the desert. And there were some camps I guess there was some attempts, but I’ve read about them, but in the Minidoka camp there was no such incident.

14:07 You mentioned earlier and one of the reasons that has motivated you to tell this story right now is that you want to counteract some misconceptions people. What misconceptions…?

14:28 Oh, there’s a few that thought that we would be disloyal, you know, fifth column activities where we’re supposed to be going on the citizen spying for Japan, this kind of stuff weren’t trusted. And some of them have the idea that we were pampered and coddled into camps, which is not true. We made the best of it. The relocation centers were more permanent. They were in existence for three, four years at the longest. The assembly centers all along the west coast., were temporary. A lot of them had to make to all the given was a mattress casing and you fill it up with straw for your bed. Portland assembly center was Multnomah Fairgrounds, the Seattle area Tacoma area went to Piuyallup. Western Idaho I mean Western Washington fairgrounds at Puyallup. They made the horse stalls and barns into temporary shelters. Santa Anita was another one. Racetracks and fairgrounds were converted into assembly centers temporary, so the accommodations weren’t good.

16:01 A lot of people know that (unintelligible) talked about the purpose of the assembly?

16:07 That was when the order was given to evacuate, they had to have a place to keep the people for a while while these relocation centers were being built. And the War Relocation Authority had to build the centers more permanent, more further inland. They were in a hurry to herd all the Japanese Americans together on the three West Coast states and keep them under surveillance. So they were just a barbed wire enclosure with people in their hastily put together barracks. Pine Dale, Camp Pine Dale just north of Fresno, just outside the city of Fresno

16:53 (unintelligible)

16:58 I don’t know what happened to them, they were gone when I got back to my place. Three years later, On the farm…? Everything my I left my farm equipment, my irrigation system, pump pipes, sprinkler system, a lot of gardening tools and all my fam home furniture and beds and everything. And turned it over to a man I’ve known for a long time and gave him the key.

17:40 When I went back two and a half years later, and it wasn’t the same person in the house on the farm. But he showed me a government bill of sale for everything that I had left. It was in his name, so I couldn’t claim it. He wouldn’t let me touch anything. And so I never went back. I didn’t have anything to go back to. That was my reason that I settled in Idaho. I did want to go back at one time. I go back to visit every year a couple of times a year, was most of my friends and people I went to school with went back to Bellevue and Seattle. Bellevue, at the time of evacuation about 50 families. There’s only about well, I take it back. There’s a lot of families there but it’s not the same type of family there who work in Seattle and there’s a lot of people in Bellevue now. The people that former residents of Bellevue aren’t back in Bellevue. They live in Seattle. Probably half a dozen families live and live in Bellevue that used to live there before and they’re scattered all over the country.

18:50 How did you How does somebody who had everything taken from them and how started all over again. How did you do that?

19:01 Well just had to at all. We left camp with a suitcase just an overnight cases all I had. My wife and I got married she had a little overnight case. They were all her belongings and then mine was all in my suitcase. Talking about starting up from scratch, you couldn’t

19:21 That was a requirement that you could only carry?

19:22 That’s was a requirement just what suitcase you could carry. Everybody was allowed a suitcase so just a little one. It wasn’t that big.

19:38 Yes, I was one of the very first couples to be married at Tule Lake. I was married in August 23rd Nine teen to get this right to do 42 1942 August 23. And there was only one other couple that we married on the same day.

20:10 I’m a Buddhist. But I got made by a Baptist minister and had to get a marriage license in the county that Tule Lake is relocated is located in MODOK. County, California.

20:34 Was the minister was in a camp…?
He was also evacuee. There probably was a Buddhist Reverend terrified of taking the time to find out but there was we didn’t we didn’t check into it that much. The bouquet a flight for the flowers, a bakery truck that service the camp canteens from Klamath Falls 35 miles away. I ordered through the canteen and had some had, did have a bouquet of flowers and had a little cake. The rest was menu for the for the day at the camp at the our block. The camps were built in blocks.

00:04 Whoever some had less or less than his father didn’t have two weeks, they probably have 24 hours. So we get people in people in. Okay. It

00:28 was the interim period before the order of evacuation?

00:31 I don’t remember exactly. But after we knew definitely that we were going to have to leave. And then we were never told where we were going. This was another thing we were never told where we were going didn’t know our destination. This is roughly around two weeks, when a definite word came that we had to leave, we weren’t going to be able to stay the summer. We had talked about it ever since December 7, but it was middle of May when I left. And we had to just about two weeks notice to get everything in to get all your business in order, dispose of anything. I sold a refrigerator for $5. So pick up like T 36 model Ford pickup for $50. And a man who was, I considered a good friend, treated with me at a service station. Where I figured it was a good friend. He said I will send you the other 25 When you let me know when you get there your address, which I did. I never did see him again. So I got $25 for a 1936 pickup. That was in real good shape. Of course it was five years old. I had a 1939 ton and a half truck I got $400 for. Didn’t get anything for the rest of the equipment. Just had to leave it there didn’t have time to sell it or any household goods we just boarded up in a house and and left it he was only allowed to take a suitcase a piece. So we left with with just what we could carry.

02:30 (unintelligible)

02:34 Certain areas of the country. Terminal Island area in our Los Angeles was given 24 hours to leave. Bainbridge Island across the sound from Seattle was given, I don’t know how long they were given. But it was very short compared to the rest of the area around Seattle.

03:05 You mentioned how much you were getting to the cost versus others.

03:10 Well, we were I myself now the government, doubt a government representative. In this community that I lived in, there was a company formed to take over the farms. And they dealt with each farmer on separately each one. And I wanted to hold up for more but I just figured out the seed and the fertilizer and part of the labor involved in it and got out. I was paid, I had 13 acres all in crop all truck crops. Peas, lettuce, cauliflower, celery, strawberries, beans. I got $100 an acre. Those that took that over that summer got well rich on it because everything was 1,000% higher retail, wholesale price wise of vegetable crops on the Seattle market, at least 1,000%. So they made money, but they didn’t know how to farm. So next year. There was no farm.

04:32 So now you’re getting $100 an acre.

04:36 Three, four or 5000 or more. The government finance, this group didn’t the government never probably never did get their money back. I don’t know going back that far. They disbanded they couldn’t farm. They stepped in and formed an organization to buy my crops, my neighbor’s crops in this community. They were able to harvest it somehow. But after that they never went back to farming. They just looked let the farms go, they were never farmed there for three or four year period.

05:15 What does it mean for you right now, to be a Japanese American?

05:21 I’m proud to be a Japanese American. Now. I wasn’t, I was always proud of that. But it meant a lot of trouble during the war years. But having weathered the storm and went through all the troubles, and getting through it, you know, in good shape. I always say that I’m proud to be a Japanese American. Mainly because of the record of the soldiers who went and volunteered for the service. And the record they came back with. 442 and 100 battalion from Hawaii. Our Nisei a congressman, and in Washington DC, the last 10 years or more, the work that they do… I’m not ashamed to be an American of Japanese ancestry know.

06:28 How do you feel that you have gone to influence the community on how to build your community?

06:40 That’s kind of a hard question to answer, but I think influence the community by, my when I got into the bowling industry, the bowling business that was a small Bowling Center. I was the second proprietor in the whole state of Idaho that put in automatic pinsetters. Before then it was pin boys, you know, hand set. And in 1981, build a new 24 Lane center with all the latest equipment from the ground up. So it gave the community a recreation that was second to none in that area. And got to know the people in the country, the farmers and merchants as sponsors and the bowling public. And got to meet a lot of people, made a lot of friends. Which I wouldn’t have if I stayed in farming, I’m sure. That’s why as a Japanese American, I’m more visible in the community because I was in business. In fact, I was the only one in the business of any kind in the city. And as far as a community. They’ve supported my business venture and have helped me along all these years. And I could I think I could say I was well respected in the community. I’m happy with the situation as I am now. Yes. I’m glad I relocated in Nampa.

08:42 Do you feel that Idaho is any different… (unintelligible)? I think Idaho. You know, I took me one year is all. It was so much hotter than Seattle, in the summer, the first year I spent on. And the winter was so cold compared to what I was used to. But after that one year and getting used to the weather, the climate, I like it. I prefer it much more than Seattle. I was talking to some friends the other day. And this came up because of the San Francisco earthquake last Tuesday. That I’d rather live in Nampa than anywhere else or in Idaho someplace in anywhere else, especially Western Idaho. And it’s because of the climate and the people. I would rather live I wouldn’t go anywhere now. And I visited quite a bit of places quite a few places. So California I’ve been to several times, I’ve been to Oregon and naturally Seattle every year a couple of times. And I don’t think I’d like to go anywhere else. Make my home here in Idaho.
Do you speak Japanese? I speak a little Japanese. I used to be able to speak quite fluently at one time. But right after the war, it was better that you didn’t know how to speak Japanese. If you spoke to Japanese they figured he was Japanese from Japan. There’s a lot of people out there yet, this nation across this nation, that doesn’t
differentiate me from Japanese citizen of Japan. If you’re not familiar with it that I run into this, some people ask me my wife while she was working a fellow worker here a few years back asked her what language you speak at home she says English you know that’s a stupid questions you work with her all the time.

10:55 There are a lot of more are surprised to hear that my son is a teacher. And that’s nothing new now. But I mean, he’s, he’s one of the earlier ones that taught school. He was going to be a doctor he couldn’t stand the sight of blood so he decided to better be a teacher instead. He started out college as a, wanting to become a doctor at one time. Taurus I guess in his young days younger than that when he was 10 or 11, friends would ask him what you’re going to be in so I’m going to be a bowling proprietor. And I talked him out of that but he was going to be a doctor and he took two years of biology and got so he couldn’t stand the sight of blood I said you’re never going to be a doctor if you can stand the sight of blood you better change your major and go into math and biology

11:58 They have everything. Very spoiled. (unintelligible) No, I don’t think I do. Maybe my wife does. They’re learning everything: piano tap dancing, ballet and swimming lessons. Course they’re young yet. The older older older of the two is only going, he will be eight here in January. But kept busy all the time.

12:33 Any traditional Japanese ever developed all American?

12:38 All American except two years ago. The community of Ontario has a big Japanese population. And they have a Buddhist church. And they have what they call a Bon Odori in the fall. So my granddaughter did. But as took a party in that, learning to dance when she was six years old, five and six. And I bought her a Japanese kimono on one of my trips. Well, my only trip back to Japan in five years ago. I brought this
back for her so she could dance in. But she didn’t dance this last fall. Things are getting older, a little more self conscious. But she’s taking ballet lessons. You know, I would hate to see all of it lost. But I think it’s going to take a background to it. In your small communities, it would it’s much more easier to lose that Japanese culture. If you go to your major cities like Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco it’ll be kept up I’m sure. The reason for that being those major cities are getting people from Japan constantly, you know immigrating, no the dances, know all these things. But you get to small farming community. Like in most parts of Idaho, you don’t have that. So your events eventually disappear

14:39 I think it would be a shame to completely disappear. But there’s a lot of good things, a lot of good culture from Japan. That mixed with American culture, it would help you know. But I think the most important thing that I I taught my son was to respect the law. He’s never got a traffic ticket. Never got a parking ticket even that I know, of course, parking meters are out now in Nampa and Caldwell, but they used to have them. Never got a speeding ticket. And he’s a careful driver. And you don’t see the Japanese names on the police blotter in our town or in Boise, Nampa, Caldwell. Never. I’ve been asked by lawyers and judges How come and I tell them the same thing I’m saying now. Respect for law and order is one of the main things that we teach them when they’re kids, so they don’t get into trouble once in a while they do. You can’t say there isn’t any you go to your major cities. They’ve got gangs, Los Angeles, San Francisco, any big city, Seattle even getting that way. But I think it’s an environment to grow up. And of course, even
In the camp where the family structure kind of broke down? That did break down. Yes, it hurt a lot of a lot of them there. Some of them left their home earlier. They went out to school, went off to college is from the camp. I think if it wasn’t for evacuation and in the internment centers, the families would have stayed together longer.

16:30 Because that tradition was still handed down? I think so. I’ve talked to some that did hand it down. Some that didn’t get it.

16:43 I’m out of formal questions. Are there any things? We haven’t touched upon? That he thinks it’s important?

16:50 No, I don’t. Would you have any questions?
You said it’s interesting. You said earlier that you felt it was right for you. Definitely go along with that order.
Yes. Once the order was given, I didn’t think it was. It would have been to no avail to fight that order. You can’t fight the army. It was the Justice Department. But the US Army and the War Department is the one that did the actual evacuating. And the soldiers that guarded us, you know, they had rifles and bayonets and it would have been foolish to attempt to escape or to defy the order. For a short time… There the there was talk of maybe we would not go, try not to go. And they met with the War Department in San Francisco. Japanese leaders who’ve been blamed for it many times, even even today, but they decided the best war effort they could do would be to go peacefully, like I said earlier today, and cause less trouble for the government. That way to go peacefully than defy it, we could have fought it. To round up 100,000 people, men, women and children and put them in a camp. There was a big job, especially with the scarcity of scarcity of transportation and material on account of the war started. I think that they done as good a job as it could possibly do at that time, bad as conditions were. I didn’t like the conditions, but looking back at it now it was probably as good as they could do. In a lot of places, it could have been better. The only experience I had was with a camp that had less problems. And I went in after the camps were settled. I wasn’t one of the first ones to go to a camp. A lot of the first contingent that went had to go in and fix the camp up and help fix a camper and get it ready for occupancy. I wasn’t one of those. I was lucky I went to when it was well settled. So my experiences are different than those that first opened it up.