Donald E. Crabtree Lithic Technology Collection

CLIR-DHC: Advisory Board Interview Jason Younker 10/19/2022

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (00:00): Well Jason, if you don’t mind, uh, why don’t you give us a little introduction, just however you’d like to introduce yourself, uh, your name, Tribal affiliation, and any roles that you think are pertinent for this interview.

Jason Younker (00:09): Okay. Uh I’m Jason Younker. I am the Assistant Vice President and Advisor to the President for Sovereignty and Government to Government Relations. I’m also Chief of the Coquille Indian Tribe and an associate professor of anthropology here at the University of Oregon. Wear a lot of different hats, and sometimes I don’t know which hat I’m wearing.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (00:35): That’s, uh, very reasonable and very fair. Uh thank you so much for, uh, meeting with us. So we shared this interview question set with you. So I’m just going to kind of dive right into the first one as we have it, and it’s just a broad question. It’s, what’s your perspective on the Crabtree Collection and ones like it? And do you think it’s appropriative of Native cultures? Is it appropriative?

Jason Younker (01:00): Um, I, you know, there are a lot of Crabtree-like collections in the world, and, uh, I think his is probably a really good example of appropriation. Um however, they are also very good examples of technology, traditional technology. Now I, you know, my familiarity with Crabtree is that sometimes when individuals get this deep into the hole, they consider themselves Native American and better than Native Americans. And sometimes that’s the feel that I get from this collection is that “there are no more Native Americans, so I have to take this upon myself.” And that isn’t entirely the truth. Um but I do think that these types of examples should not remain hidden because they are appropriated, they should be used to teach that appropriation is not necessarily telling the correct story. Um, so that — that is kind of my opinion about those type of collections in general. Um, and sometimes, you know sometimes, you have to throw all of the things over the side of the canoe, [laughs] but I don’t — I don’t get that feeling from Crabtree’s collection. I think that this is an opportunity to — to show some really good items.

Jason Younker (02:48): Um, would I be disappointed if it didn’t exist altogether? Probably, because you know, our American Indian Alaskan Native histories are very, very traumatic and included mostly death by disease. Uh and so sometimes these things are forgotten, uh, but I don’t think lithic art is — is one of those things that we have forgotten. But he did certainly present himself in a light, uh, that it made him look like he was the only one that knew.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (03:37): Yeah. Thank you, Jason. I, I absolutely agree, and I think you hit on some really, really great points there and the erasure and the emulation and also still the value of these demonstrations of the technology and some of the techniques used, Crabtree, both emulated things that he had seen and invented his own sort of remixes of things. And so it’s interesting to think about that in a sort of intellectual property kind of context and that it creates a space where we can have conversations like this one, and that, um, the collection not existing doesn’t resolve these issues right? That it’s — it’s — it’s a place where we can engage. So that’s — that’s…

Jason Younker (04:16): And I think that you really said it well. That I mean, it is the context. We have to understand the context of these things. Rather than convict them of who made them, let’s figure out what the context was and then let’s assess it on those values.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (04:35): Yeah, yeah, that’s great. That makes great sense. Um, Jylisa, do you want to take us into question two, which I think really dovetails nicely with that combo?

Jylisa Kenyon (04:44): Yes — yes, definitely. Do you think folks digitizing digital collections who are not anthropologists should take up this type of contextualizing work? If so, how can we be successful without causing further harm?

Jason Younker (04:59): Again, it’s about context. And digitizing is just one of those modern technologies, just like we are on Zoom today. Uh you know, digitizing makes available, uh, information at a local level. When I was going through graduate school, we went to the Smithsonian to find any documents about my Tribe. And I mean that’s a — that’s a location very far away. Um and we’re, the Coquille are a very small Tribe and they said, “oh, we’ll go ahead and, um, copy anything that you want.” Well, copying is just another form of digitizing really. And so we said, “okay, great.” And little did we know, we came away with 60,000 pages of information. And [laughs] the second time they invited us out there, they didn’t make that promise again. [laughs] But I mean this is just the next step in — in technology, and I think it does make sense to preserve and not only preserve them, but preserve them in multiple locations.

Jason Younker (06:15): And that’s best done at, through technology. So if you have a very rare book, uh, and the library burns down, that, it’s gone forever. And so we — we want to make sure that we are preserving collections within the context that they were created and understanding that context as well. So I — I have no problems with, uh, digitizing technologies like this. Now there are other components where technology probably shouldn’t be used without the express permission of a Tribal nation, but for this particular one, um, I — I would seek out as many partners as we possibly can, and figure out what is the right way to digitize or make public within the correct context.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (07:28): Absolutely. Thank you, Jason. And I think that that’s, uh, one thing Jylisa and I keyed in right from the start was as librarians who are not anthropologists or archaeologists that we needed to — to pull in some expertise. And so um, you’ve been a — a huge part of that. So thank you for uh, agreeing to participate with our project. Um, just uh, the conversations we’ve had so far I think have really helped us to fill in the gaps in our thinking and know where to look to sort of build our own knowledge too. Uh…

Jason Younker (07:57): I — I — I just want to add to that you know…

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (07:59): Yeah.

Jason Younker (07:59): When we finished our research at the Smithsonian, we ended up with 110,000 pages of — of information including uh, um, reel-to-reel, uh, microfiche. I mean, just all kinds of information, but it was very culturally rich, and some things within culture need to be protected from uh, misinterpretation. So we had to go through all of that information and figure out not only to whom was it attributed to, but make sure that we had the right permissions as well, and — and give the, the Tribes themselves opportunity to uh, withhold some of that collection and some of that knowledge. And its, and it — and it was never taken out of the collection. It was preserved at that site because it needs to be local. And so not only do the Tribes have that collection within their own libraries, but they also have it in a central location, which is of course here at the University of Oregon. So again, it is, there, there’s never a yes and no. There’s always a maybe somewhere in there.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (09:27): Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing more about that. That is a — a really fascinating project and must have been really sort of an interesting challenge on the data management side to kind of manage that volume of records and then go through and doing, like you’re saying like, you know, actually put some, um, some protocols in place for how things are being shared or not. And I think about, you know, all the 500 plus federally recognized Tribes across the United States all having similar records like that in these different uh, state and often federal repositories and thinking about how, um, you know, that archive in Seattle of a huge, huge Native archive, you know…

Jason Younker (10:09): Oh. Yeah.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (10:09): …entire Pacific Northwest. And they tried to move it what, to like Oklahoma? Um and — and I feel like that effort failed, but I — I kind of lost track of it. Um, I think there was an outcry about that. But again, for the federal government to be able to say we are relocating, um, all of this cultural knowledge to someplace that is physically just completely inaccessible is — is — is a major issue.

Jason Younker (10:32): Yeah.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (10:32): And so there’s a lot of, um, sovereignty and — and hopefully um, sovereignty issues at play for Tribes and hopefully, interest that we can build amongst, uh, digital librarians and thinking about this type of work as a, another type of meaningful repatriation work. I think a lot of times people think of repatriation as a very, um, sort of superficial level thing, a — a belonging or even worse, a person in a place that they shouldn’t be, and that it, that person or belonging needs to be returned. And I think that that’s a very important, uh, thread of work, but it doesn’t uh, go deeper into the intellectual issues all the time.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (11:07): And so thinking about, you know, access to all of these records as inherent Tribal knowledge and Tribal rights and how do we as information professionals realize that that’s — that’s part of the landscape that Tribes are facing is having our information locked away somewhere else where we can’t get it, right? Or, um, it’s hidden in records or however it is that it’s, um, sort of locked away. So thank you for sharing about this super, super interesting and a different intellectual property issue, but still, um, I think one really relevant for our audience of librarians and information professionals. Uh, what do you think makes a digital effort like this a good partner to Native nations and people?

Jason Younker (11:49): I, you know, the recognition of the context, obviously, in which they were created, um, is a type of repatriation. Uh it’s a recognition that not all things were created, uh, fairly, and — and the replications may not have been entirely accurate. So we have to, as, uh, in the academy, we have to recognize that we are not always the experts. That the Tribal nations themselves perhaps have those experts. Sometimes those Tribal nations will come to us and say, you know, “we could really use some help in this particular area.” My — my Tribe did that with the University of Oregon. We didn’t have any anthropologists, so they sent me [laughs] to go to school here. Uh, and so I think we need to keep that in mind that the relationship that you develop with whatever Tribal nation it is, is for a longer period of time than what you and I will see. We are building on relationships that need to last for a hundred, hundreds of years.

Jason Younker (13:19): That is the timeline that — that Tribes look at things. So when you’re looking at digital collections, you are also thinking about, you know, we, we used to — we used to think that, oh, put it on CDs. We know that CDs have a lifespan. [laughs] Now we have to figure out what is best for the, not only the collections but the community, uh, that we have created a relationship with. So that in itself I think should be considered whenever you’re looking at collections or Indigenous knowledge that is intended to be preserved. And it is there as a resource for future generations, those who we have not yet met. That is — that is truly the goal of the library. And so, um, and I — and I hope all libraries would do that. It’s — it’s, they’re not possessions, they’re shared information. Some — some of that information we — we need to allow our partners to decide whether that should be shared. But I think truly it is to preserve and make accessible and keep safe, um very important information.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (14:59): Thank you, Jason. That hundreds of years perspective is kind of blowing my mind. I feel like um, as librarians, it’s sort of natural to think about that with our physical collections in some ways, um, you know? It’s like we’re building this collection, and it’s really long term, but I think uh, digital collections are often so ephemeral and term-limited. And so it’s really um, interesting and sort of expansive and — and does change the sense of responsibility to think about what is a hundred-year view on this digital collection or what is a 200-year-long view on this digital collection? And um, yeah, just, I — I think the ways in which we have uh, all sort of adjusted to technology and seen the rise of, you know, permanence in the form of a CD or a DVD or a Blu-ray or the, you know, the cloud now or whatever the next thing’s gonna be, probably some kind of nanobiotechnology or something you know?

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (15:53): It’s like um, just really interesting for us to recognize that responsibility extends into this digital realm and thinking of that like, really long-term impact the way you might with a, a sort of physical footprint or a physical collection. So I think that’s some — some, something really interesting to — to just sort of think about and to think as a rubric for our digital projects, to not think of them as being so ephemeral and time-limited and like oh, it’ll be a website for a few years, and then people will forget about it. To think about it as like, no, this is a — this is a contribution to this body of knowledge that we want to live for a long, long, long time.

Jason Younker (16:29): Yep.

Jylisa Kenyon (16:34): Yeah, and I was thinking kind of the importance when you are partnering with Native Nations and people on these type of digital projects is how do you ensure that that relationship is maintained even once maybe the original partners, right…If — if the three of us were working on a project like this, if, you know, 50 years down the road we’re no longer involved, you know, we’ve passed away or something like that, how do you make sure that the relationship between the university or the researchers and those Native Nations and people is maintained in — in a respectful way for something digital that can live potentially forever, online?

Jason Younker (17:08): And, you know, that is really, one — one of my goals is, and this is truly, I — I would say it’s a Native thing or it might even just be a Coquille thing, but you’re always training the person behind you. So it, it’s kind of like you are the mentor, and that way the relationship doesn’t end when you leave. Um, it, the relationships between Tribes and a university, they’re very difficult to establish. But once they are established, then that, you can always mess it up, but it buys you patience. So our relationship with Oregon’s Tribes started in 1994. That’s not a very long time ago, but we, at — at the U of O, we’ve had a couple of hiccups here and there, but we have always been persistent in maintaining those relationships. And again, that’s because we have nurtured them all along, nurtured the relationship all along the way. So again, when I say 100 years or 200 years, that’s what we’re working towards.

Jason Younker (18:33): We’re building the, um, up the person that is intended to come up behind you so that it’s not an unfamiliar face that is standing in front of the, the Tribal governments. And then it allows you opportunities that you normally wouldn’t have. Um we have uh, the wonderful Museum of National and Cultural History here, and if it weren’t for the relationships that we have had with uh, Tribal Nations, I don’t think we would’ve gotten through some of the repatriation hurdles that you have. And again, you buy yourself patience and time as long as you are always maintaining those relationships.

Jylisa Kenyon (19:34): Thank you, Jason. That’s fantastic. Okay, so question four, from your perspective, what should people know about flintknapping to understand the art and practice in a way that doesn’t center this one non-Native person? In our case, Crabtree.

Jason Younker (19:49): Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well I could tell you how well I flintknap, it hurts. [laughs] I cut myself every [laughs], I’m not, I’m really not that good. In fact, I would say I’m not good at all. I — I can take a — a nice piece of chert or obsidian and make it into gravel. Um but, you know, for these — these types of collections, I think what is really important is not only who did they replicate, and, you know, Crabtree was a replicator if that’s a word, yes. And uh, he, you know, so we really need to trace back, from whom did they come from? Is it Nez Perce? Is it one of the Paiutes? Uh you know, where — where did they come from? And then also source the obsidian or chert. That adds more information to, uh, where and when did he do these types of things. So any — any information you can add to the context certainly helps clear up the mysteries that have been left behind.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (21:14): Uh, Jason, I’m going to go into question number five here if that’s okay. So one of the topics we’ve discussed as part of this grant project is the relationship between experimental archaeology, amateur archaeology, and cultural as well as knowledge appropriation. Um, can you just talk a little bit about what you see is the relationship between those concepts, um, you know, and how it potentially connects maybe to what you were just saying about sort of, flintknapping as praxis and process?

Jason Younker (21:44): Hm-hmm. Uh amateur archaeology, I don’t think anybody would go to an amateur doctor. Uh, so we have to be really careful what the line is between amateur archaeologist and looter. Or, it just, it, beyond me that somebody would say, “yes, I’m an amateur archaeologist.” That’s like buying a camera, and saying, “I’m a professional photographer.” It, it’s there’s a lot more to it. And, and there are certainly laws that limit what you can do as an amateur archaeologist. Um and I simply prefer not to see in any fair light those who call themselves amateur archaeologists. It ends up creating more unclear, unfair pictures than it does any good. Um, you’re going to get an operation, don’t go to an amateur. I, that’s — that’s all I would say.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (23:03): I thought that was, uh, really interesting learning about, is it the Society of American Archivists [sic: Society for American Archaeology] has the Crabtree Amateur Archaeology Award, and um, I — I just, I didn’t know that that was a, um, you know, a — a thing. And so it’s, I, you know, took it upon myself to try to learn a little bit and look up some of the previous recipients of this award to see who’s receiving it currently. And it is really interesting how archaeology or anthropology is kind of carving out this quasi-professional space, you know? Like librarianship is a professional pathway, we are required to have a master’s degree. There’s a lot of inter sort of group conversation about the — the challenges and problems of that, the way it’s exclusionary, you know, and prevents certain people’s expertise as librarians from being recognized when we say you have to have this particular type of degree, um, you know, to be recognized in this way. And at the same time, that is where you receive this orientation to sort of the professional ethics, right?

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (24:10): And so it’s really interesting to think of, um, why does archaeology sort of indulge amateur archaeology in this way? And you know, I — I read about a site in New Mexico that had actually been a whole Pueblo that had been purchased by an individual, and then researchers, actual anthropologists and archaeologists at UNM sort of had to have a good relationship with him to then excavate stuff that he like, “play excavated.” Then they would go through the — the tillings and the piles of stuff and actually do a proper excavation on this. And they found a bunch of, um, intact, uh, kachina masks that were really unique, uh, contributions, you know, culturally speaking. Yeah, it’s totally heartbreaking. I mean, it makes you nauseated just reading about it. And it, it’s — it’s just really weird to me from an outside discipline’s perspective that archaeology and anthropology has sort of continued this tradition, if you will. And it, and it seems like it’s — it’s high time maybe for sort of more open conversation about, as you’re saying, you wouldn’t go to an amateur doctor, um, you wouldn’t go to an amateur plumber.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (25:19): And so how do we take this seriously when we’re talking about issues of people’s cultural heritage, people, and people’s belongings, that, that’s really not something that we want an amateur, you know, dabbling in. And — and how do we, you know, maybe change the conversation about professionalism and degrees while also actively engaging with this serious issue of, you know, we — we — we can’t have, amateur historians in this capacity. It’s — it’s disrespectful. And as you’re saying, is, how is it not just looting?

Jason Younker (25:51): Yeah. And, you know, provenience is always very, very important. Um preservation is important. Ensuring — ensuring the context for these very important, um, things that were left behind for some reason. Whether it was violent, disease, or just abandoned, it’s still an — an important part of American Indian and Alaska Native heritage and information, and it shouldn’t be up to an interpretation of an amateur. Um, there’s you know, preservation is a skill that is learned. And when you’re in the library and you’re looking at a rare book, you’re wearin’ the gloves, you’re, you know, sometimes wearin’ a mask even. Um, and, to be an amateur archaeologist that’s not very far from simply looting, and that ruins the entire context of things.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (27:16): Agreed. Um, okay. Well, our last question that we have written for our script, um, Jylisa, do you want to take that one? I think it’s your turn to ask.

Jylisa Kenyon (27:25): Sure. Yes. Uh as we’ve discussed, the Crabtree Collection includes objects Crabtree created as well as objects created by Native and Indigenous people that he or those who knew him looted. What options are there for discovering the geological provenance of the Native belongings, especially when any residues have not been preserved?

Jason Younker (27:47): Uh, again, once you remove something from its location, you lose a lot in, of the context. Uh, I — I think of, um, stories. Um, when the Coquille were removed from their homelands, the stories remained at the place, but when the people died, so did the stories as well. Uh, only a few were, remained at that location, and they were the ones that maintained those stories. But when you — when you lose the original authors of that narrative and you — you ignore the, um, many, many generations that have passed down that technology in a certain way, then you also lose that important context and that important information. So when I think of Crabtree, I think of somebody who had something in his mind and in his heart he thought he was contributing, uh, significantly, and he probably did it for very good intentions. It changed later on when he declared himself the expert, uh, because then it’s no longer Nez Perce information. It’s no longer other people’s information, and uh, it’s more self-promotion than anything beyond that.

Jason Younker (29:45): Now I don’t think that we should ignore that. I think we should paint the picture the way that it is intended, the way that uh, it really is as opposed to ignoring it. And then an individual can go in with warning, when they are looking at these digital collections, they can say, okay, that is a very nice Clovis point, but the chert itself is from Peru, so how did it get all the way up, up here? [laughs] Was it traded? We don’t know because we’ve lost part of that information. Not only when Crabtree passed on, but also when he didn’t say, oh, I had my buddy who was a Nez Perce create this Clovis point. So it’s really hard to piece together that puzzle when you’re missing so many parts. And that’s, that is the unfortunate nature of becoming an amateur archaeologist is that you don’t know all of the aspects of what the profession truly is.

Jason Younker (31:03): You don’t know the sciences behind what it truly is. Now I’m probably making a whole bunch of enemies of those who are amateur archaeologists, but I would just say, I would encourage them, if you think you have…if you are truly interested, then you should explore what archaeology has to offer you and find out. You can’t do that by surfing the web. You actually have to know archaeology and anthropology. There’s a — there’s a foundation that it’s built upon that gives you those skills and that information. And so I — I think that there’s — there’s, that’s the type of respectful presentation that we need to be, that’s where we need to be. We need to make sure that we are not holding back the entire narrative.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (32:12): Uh, Jason, do you have any thoughts that you might share for sort of amateur practicing flintknappers? You know like if, don’t pick things up off the ground, you know, don’t — don’t practice in actual archaeological spaces, you know, source your materials from non-artifact sources. Do you — do you have any perspectives like that for our folks who might be watching who are not amateur archaeologists, but are amateur flintknappers, right? And they — they — they may or may not be Native. One of the complicated things about Crabtree’s legacy is he taught a lot of Native people how to flintknap, right? So then we get this weird sort of snake eating its tail of appropriation kinda thing. And so do you — do you have any advice that you might share for people who maybe don’t understand why picking up a arrowhead is not, you know, they — they don’t understand how that’s looting?

Jason Younker (33:05): Yeah. And, you know, I’ve made those mistakes in my career as well early on. I, you know, was doing some archaeology for Bandon Dunes Golf Course, world-famous golf course out here. [laughs] And it was built right on top of a Coquille village in — in one of our shimmy fields. And, you know, I was looking for shell middens. I was looking for anything that would, uh, show human occupation. And out of the bank, there was, like, 10 very nice arrow points, projectile points. And so I picked one up, and I took it up to the archaeologist in charge, and said, look, there’s like 10 of them down there. And he goes, “oh my God, where did you get it? Why did you pick it up?” And I didn’t realize really what context meant. And so I brought him down there, I showed him where it was. And I said, “right there,” because there was the little shape in the dirt.

Jason Younker (34:08): And so he made me put it back. And he said, this is outside of our archaeology zone that we’re supposed to look at. And — and it broke my heart that I had to leave all of that stuff there because it was so affiliated with who I was. But I later understood that, you know, when you’re looking at a place that has human occupation, you don’t necessarily need to dig everything up. As exciting as it might be, you’re trying to recreate that narrative for that place. When Crabtree and any amateur archaeologists or flintknapper, they are really, when they’re working with stone tools, they’re really trying to recreate things that are important to them. And so, it, those things shouldn’t necessarily be attributed to, uh, American Indians writ large. They should be attributed to them and their accomplishment. And I’m replicating a projectile point, a Clovis point.

Jason Younker (35:31): Um, and this, and also they should understand what they were used for and do your research. Understand as much as you can about where it came from because not only are you replicating something, but you’re also learning from what the past has to teach you. So I have no problem with people replicating. I have a problem with people appropriating and saying that they are the experts when really they are replicating thousands of years of technology. And that’s what I would — that’s what I would encourage archaeol- or flintknappers to think about is, uh, these are things that are easily replicated, but the knowledge, to learn the knowledge is even more fun.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (36:30): Mm-hmm, I think that’s such great, great points there. Thank you for those. And it makes me think too about the sort of responsibility of collectors, um, and how if you’re someone who is collecting points of an Indigenous origin you should probably take a look at if you want to keep doing that. And if you can do it in an ethical way, I mean just to put my opinion in there, but at — at a very minimum you have a real responsibility to keep your — your provenance straight and everything separate so that things aren’t getting messed up, and you can provide your best possible provenance for the items in your collection that are an Indigenous belonging, right? And you can say, “this is the provenance of this object as I understand it,” and have it, um, and to — to not convolute, to not sort of mix collections. One of the challenging things with Crabtree’s collection is things he made are mixed in right alongside with things that are sent to him.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (37:21): And so we need an expert to even start pulling things out to have a subset to then start to think about repatriation or even intellectual repatriation and being able to give it a geographic context and therefore a proximal Tribal context. And so uh, really interesting to think about how amateur collectors have a part to play here too in how they manage their own collections and the information related to that. And that there’s a lot more to this than just having the things or not, right? That if you’re going to have these items, you need to sort of understand this broader context that it’s in, and think seriously about your responsibility for preserving the knowledge that you have around those items and trying to get them back to where they should be.

Jason Younker (38:07): Yeah, and I, you know, there’s a, I don’t want to villainize anybody. There’s really no villain here except for misunderstanding. If you ignore what the laws are and you ignore, once you know, then of course then you’re on the wrong side. Uh, there are lots of farmers who end up with fabulous collections and they’ve framed them or they put ‘em in a bucket, you know, a coffee can, and they have come out of their fields. It — it wasn’t malintent to dig these up, it just happened to be on the land that used to be occupied by somebody important. And now you are the steward of that land. So it’s always important to remember where those things came from, and try to do the right thing after the — after the fact. And you know, I — I think Crabtree really early on in his career enjoyed flintknapping and enjoyed learning and thought like American anthropology that the Indians were gonna be dead and gone soon. Uh, and we’re still here, but Crabtree is gone. [laughs]

Jason Younker (39:37): And so we need to make sure that in whatever we do with Crabtree’s collection, we do so knowing the information that we have today, uh, and — and making sure that the information is shared widely with the partners that we create because we suspect that they come from over here or over here. And — and I think that this is really a good opportunity for the university to be able to start those relationships. If they haven’t had them in the past, this is a really good way to bring knowledge to the collection and start a relationship that hopefully will last uh, many, many generations.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (40:31): Awesome. Well I think that’s a great note for us to end on. Jason, I really appreciate you going through these questions with us. Is there any other comments or things you want to add before we officially sign you off on the recording part?

Jason Younker (40:44): Um, no, I — I loved the questions, and they weren’t easy. [laughs] And so, and I’m curious to see what — what will be the fallout, [laughs]…

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (40:56): [laughs]

Jason Younker (40:56): but, uh you know, I — I think that these are all things that we should be, every university should be talking about. Um and the Tribes themselves have challenges too because we do get farmer collections that come into Tribal Hall, and they’ll put them on our desk and say, “uh, I’ve been collecting these for years, uh, here they are.” And, you know, once the, once you don’t know where they came from, it’s — it’s really hard to, no matter, it, it’s hard to trace them back to the original peoples. I mean, it could, you know, for us, it — it might not even be Coquille Collections, it might be from other Tribes that surround us. But uh, the responsibility once you have them in your hands increases significantly. So that’s — that’s the way that we have treated every collection that has come onto our desk.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (41:55): Yeah, yeah. That — that farming example is a fascinating one and one that feels really relevant to us here at the U of I.

Jason Younker (42:01): Yeah.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (42:01): I’m sure there’s a lot of, um, activity like that happening around us that maybe folks don’t even really realize. These land-grant universities, partly on our mission, should be here to, um, advise people, connect, try to help people figure out how to connect to the Tribal entities that, uh, might have an interest and sort of get those things properly preserved so. Well Jason, thank you so much for, uh, working with us on this project, and thank you for your interview today. Uh, I think we’ll go ahead and uh, say we’re finished with the recording part. So Jylisa will sign that off. And thank you again, Jason.

Jason Younker (42:33): Yep.

Jylisa Kenyon (42:34): Thanks, Jason.

Marco Seiferle-Valencia (42:35): Okay.