Leonard Feather Blindfold Tests

[Plays "Chasin' the Bird" by Curtis Counce, from Jazz On The Bounce with Collette and Counce, Bel Canto Records (1958). Personnel: Curtis Counce, bass; Harold Land, tenor saxophone; Rolf Ericson, trumpet; Elmo Hope, piano; Frank Butler, drums.]

Leonard Feather: Yeah we got you a cup, so it's got...

Ben Webster: Oh yeah?

Unknown Speaker: Three more days, man. Three, four more days.

Ben Webster: Okay.

Unknown Speaker: And then talk.

Ben Webster: That's it.

Unknown Speaker: That's it.

Ben Webster: It's the only thing that comes out of my tape. That talk.

Leonard Feather: It's all on the tape, yeah.

Ben Webster: No, on my tape, I was talking about.

Leonard Feather: What did you think of that?

Ben Webster: What'd you say?

Leonard Feather: Huh?

Ben Webster: It's a machine, if it's working.

Leonard Feather: Yeah, well it's working. I just want your opinion of the record.

Ben Webster: Oh, very good. Very good.

Leonard Feather: You liked it?

Ben Webster: Yeah.

Leonard Feather: You recognize everybody on it, right?

Ben Webster: No, no. Or did I?

Leonard Feather: Well, maybe you did, maybe you didn't. You thought it was...

Ben Webster: What did... Well that just sounded like Harold Land. And sounded like Coucne on bass. I couldn't... Well I mean when you think of Land, and Counce, you automatically think of Carl Perkins, but it didn't sound like Carl playing piano. On drums, I know Butler. Was it Frank Butler?

Leonard Feather: Uh-huh.

Ben Webster: I'm not sure about that.

Leonard Feather: Do you know all those guys?

Ben Webster: But it was very good. I mean it was a very good record. The balance, and the solos, and everything. It was like crazy.

Leonard Feather: You like the sound, the stereo sound?

Ben Webster: Yeah, that's the in, brings it right to you.

Leonard Feather: Yeah. Okay, well, so you know the rating system? What would you give that?

Ben Webster: Well I don't hear any poor records. I don't think you have any poor records around.

Leonard Feather: No, that's right. So what would you give this?

Ben Webster: Well I like that very much. 12 stars you know.

Leonard Feather: How about four out of five?

Ben Webster: Well, yeah.

Leonard Feather: Yeah, four means very good.

Ben Webster: I mean, for what they were doing, and what they had to do with, I'd give that the most.

Leonard Feather: Do you know the tune?

Ben Webster: No, I didn't. Well you started rather abruptly. So I didn't get that...

Leonard Feather: Well, it doesn't matter.

Ben Webster: They do play it in F though, weren't they?

Leonard Feather: Playing in what?

Ben Webster: In F?

Leonard Feather: You know, I think it's in F, but uh-

Ben Webster: Sounded like F to me, I think.

Leonard Feather: (Plays melody on piano) Yeah. That's right.

Ben Webster: Well I don't know the chart.

Leonard Feather: You want to give it the maximum, five? Or just four?

Ben Webster: Well, I don't think you can sound much better. Everybody is so remarkable on the thing.

Leonard Feather: Okay.

[Plays "When Your Lover Has Gone" by Cootie Williams and Rex Stewart, from The Big Challenge, Jazztone Records (1957). Personnel: Coleman Hawkins, tenor saxophone; Bud Freeman, tenor saxophone; Cootie Williams, trumpet; Rex Stewart, cornet.]

Leonard Feather: It might be, or maybe the phonograph sharpened it a little, I don't know.

Is that on?:

Ben Webster: Heard a beep.

Unknown Speaker: Do you have what I have or do I have what you have?

Leonard Feather: Jean?

Jean: Yeah?

[Skips]:

Ben Webster: Play that again, Leonard?

Leonard Feather: Oh all right.

Ben Webster: Or you lend me your number?

[skips]:

Ben Webster: Nobody plays that. He's got this scene going.

Leonard Feather: Wow.

Ben Webster: Sounds like C there.

Leonard Feather: Yeah that one's C. Yeah, I think that tune is in C.

Ben Webster: But when Bean started blowing it sounded like he was in E natural. But he was in E flat, I guess. Play Bean's, brother Bean's.

Leonard Feather: Here we go.

Ben Webster: When Your Lover Is Gone, right?

Leonard Feather: Yeah right, that's right. Well, how about it?

Ben Webster: Oh, anything Bean's on, and Bud too. That's got to be five. You got those.

Leonard Feather: Yeah. And you said you could recognize Rex? Right?

Ben Webster: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Hes too.

Leonard Feather: Okay. So you like the whole thing?

Ben Webster: Sure. Definitely, yeah. A lot of class in that.

[Plays "You're My Thrill" by Georgie Auld, from Sax Gone Latin, Capitol Records (1958). Personnel: The Jud Conlon Rhythmaires, vocals.]

Ben Webster: This record here?

Leonard Feather: You couldn't recognize the piano player because there's a thousand players.

Ben Webster: No, well I mean...

Leonard Feather: Well I agree with you.

Ben Webster: That's a rather tough record to judge, there. I mean, that style, I would be really afraid to even say... I wouldn't know.

Leonard Feather: It isn't important who it is-

Ben Webster: It sounds like, well I meet a lot of guys who play that style.

Leonard Feather: Yeah. That's right.

Ben Webster: You know, like... do you know, vibrato style?

Leonard Feather: Yeah.

Ben Webster: And see I was rather reluctant about this, altogether, you know?

Leonard Feather: Well that doesn't matter, I'm not-

Ben Webster: But I mean it wasn't enough to judge.

Leonard Feather: Well I'm not trying to get you to guess who it was, I just want to know how you feel about the thing-

Ben Webster: Well I'm trying to figure out who it was, because I really try to go hear everybody play it, you know.

Leonard Feather: Yeah, but regardless of who it was, did you like the arrangement or the style, the way it was played?

Ben Webster: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Wonderful.

Leonard Feather: You like the Latin rhythm on that too, you think it's-

Ben Webster: Wonderful, yeah, yeah. Voices and, what's that, the conga? The drum? Yeah? Very, very nice. Yeah.

Leonard Feather: Oh. All right. Well you wouldn't rate it as high as the record before this, would you?

Ben Webster: Well I mean the tenor player sounded as though he was playing with the diction, you know? Like he didn't really get a chance to maybe extend himself, because they were cuffed to that particular rhythm.

Leonard Feather: Yeah that's right. But you think within those limitations, at least...

Ben Webster: Very nice, but... Yeah, very nice I would say. Very nice. Yeah. For that particular type of record.

Leonard Feather: Four stars, maybe?

Ben Webster: Sure, yeah.

Leonard Feather: I forgot to ask what you give the other one, with Coleman Hawkins and Bud.

Ben Webster: Anything Bean's on is five stars, I say.

Leonard Feather: Yeah, you did tell me five, that's true.

[Plays "All Too Soon" by Ella Fitzgerald and Duke Ellington, from Ella Fitzgerald Sings The Duke Ellington Song Book Vol. 2, Verve Records (1957). Personnel: Paul Gonsalves, tenor saxophone.]

Leonard Feather: Okay, we're on.

Ben Webster: Huh?

Leonard Feather: We're on. I mean, comments?

Ben Webster: Well that's the greatest of all time and time to come. Ella. And Ray Nance, they waste no notes. You give that 50 stars, if you wanted. Yeah.

Leonard Feather: All right, any comment on the tenor?

Ben Webster: Oh yeah, Paul? My man.

Leonard Feather: That's your solo with your background, it's very similar. Does it remind you of you?

Ben Webster: Well Paul has his own style, I mean...

Leonard Feather: Well it's your style.

Ben Webster: No, no I wouldn't say that. No. No, no, because I really, frankly, I wish I could get over my horn like Paul, you know?

Leonard Feather: I think he sounds very much like you on this solo.

Ben Webster: He's got his own scene going. Yeah. He's, Paul's something else, man.

Leonard Feather: Yeah, that's a nice record.

Ben Webster: Yeah. That's boss, yeah.

Leonard Feather: That's a very similar arrangement to the original, isn't it?

Ben Webster: Well no, on the original I think Lawrence played the first chorus and if I'm not mistaken I think he played that in C, and then we went to D flat.

Leonard Feather: Oh maybe so, yeah.

Ben Webster: Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, I think-

Leonard Feather: The mood on the second chorus is just the same, like Ruth in the background.

Ben Webster: Oh yes, well except from the original, I would say, yeah.

Leonard Feather: How do you think this rates among Duke's tunes?

Ben Webster: Oh that's 50 stars. And Miss Fitzgerald, yeah.

Leonard Feather: Okay. Going on.

[Plays "Dinah" by Bud Shank and Bob Cooper, from The Swing's To TV, World Pacific Records (1958). Personnel: Bud Shank, woodwinds; Bob Cooper, woodwinds.]

Ben Webster: What would you like to know about this?

Leonard Feather: Any comment?

Ben Webster: Well, the tenor was rather faded out. So I couldn't-

Leonard Feather: There was too much going on?

Ben Webster: No, and the voices were very good. But I mean the tenor was rather subdued, and I really couldn't distinguish, if I could, who it was. But very nice arrangement, and the voices were wonderful... Just I guess the tenor player, rather restricted. You know, sticking to the lead. Very nice though. I mean for that particular type thing. I would say very nice.

Leonard Feather: You don't have to be polite, you know.

Ben Webster: Well I've never heard any bad music.

Leonard Feather: Well okay. I refuse to accept that.

Ben Webster: Well no, I'll tell you the reason I that. If you keep listening, let's see if you're still fooling around with the instrument. Your instrument or, rather, you may pick up something that you can use.

Leonard Feather: Yeah.

Ben Webster: There you go. That's what I think.

Leonard Feather: Well how would you rate this? Three is good and four is very good.

Ben Webster: Well, nice is nice.

Leonard Feather: Three though, yeah?

Ben Webster: Yeah.

Leonard Feather: Okay.

[Plays "Body and Soul" by Chu Berry, from Prez and Chu (Tops on Tenor), Jazztone Records (1955, recorded 1938). Personnel: Roy Eldridge, trumpet; Chu Berry, tenor.]

Leonard Feather: What do you think of it?

Ben Webster: Well it's wonderful. It's Chu and Roy.

Leonard Feather: How do you think the background sounded, the rhythm section?

Ben Webster: Well I mean when I listen to Roy and Chu I don't listen to the rhythm.

Leonard Feather: Yeah.

Ben Webster: And frankly... incidentally, rather, Roy and Chu could accomplish one thing that I could never accomplish. That piano player can play the wrong changes, the bass player play's the wrong changes, and they get their scene going right through that. Break right through. I could never do that. If I don't hear the right bass note, I'm dead. You dig?

Leonard Feather: Yeah, I know what you mean.

Ben Webster: But they can break through that. Roy and Chu, that's very... What would you call that? Not spectacular, but...

Leonard Feather: They have strength.

Ben Webster: Yeah, no, well I don't know what this is. I mean because it's just like buying a hi-fi speaker. You listen for one thing and I listen for another thing when you buy a speaker, right?

Leonard Feather: Yeah.

Ben Webster: So I mean, I just don't understand that. Because a bad bass note, I'm through man. But they can break through. I don't get off the ground, and they're gone. Bass player play wrong, just keeping rhythm. I would rather say that it is like, bass player's playing the bass drum, you know? Yeah. But I mean if you listen, I'm listening for something else.

Leonard Feather: You were saying something about the tune while it was on, about this tune-

Ben Webster: Oh, about Body and Soul?

Leonard Feather: Yeah.

Ben Webster: Not enough to play on that. Bean's taking that out.

Leonard Feather: Well nevertheless-

Ben Webster: When he came back-

Leonard Feather: Well how do you know this wasn't made later than the tunes?

Ben Webster: Well I don't know when this was made, I'll say, but I detest even a request for the tune. Because there's nothing left to play on Body and Soul. Hawk did that. He played Body and Soul. Period.

Leonard Feather: But nevertheless, you like this version.

Ben Webster: Oh sure, sure.

Leonard Feather: So how are you going to rate it?

Ben Webster: 50 stars.

Leonard Feather: Okay.

[Plays unknown song]

Ben Webster: What was it, down in E flat?

Leonard Feather: Yeah, I think-

Ben Webster: It was nice too. Very nice. Yeah, I wish I could figure out who that was. I was trying to lay it on Stan but I mean Stan's a little heavier than that I think, you know? Wait a minute... no, I don't think that was Stan. He was very good though, he was wonderful. I mean that's that other style. What style do they call this?

Leonard Feather: What would you call it? I don't know.

Ben Webster: I don't know. Cool? I know it's cool, people sneak in with the West Coast, and Chicago style, and you know. Music is music. Swinging. Yeah, I thought it was very nice. Very nice change of pace, yeah. That's what I'd say.

Leonard Feather: You like the rhythm section?

Ben Webster: Oh, wonderful. Everything, everybody. Because I mean this is rather quick, I mean I hear horn. You notice the rhythm section, I would say, when they get in the way. So if the rhythm section's not getting in the way, I don't notice it. You get your swing-

Leonard Feather: That's all you can hear.

Ben Webster: ... it fit or it don't fit. Yeah.

Leonard Feather: Yeah, sure.

Ben Webster: I mean it goes on no criterion.

Leonard Feather: Well how would you rate it?

Ben Webster: Well I like that.

Leonard Feather: What would that be?

Ben Webster: Well I wouldn't give it 50.

Leonard Feather: Yeah I know, I know that.

Ben Webster: About 40.

Leonard Feather: Well let's say four, yeah?

Ben Webster: Yeah.

[Plays "Every Time We Say Goodbye" by Sonny Rollins, from The Sound of Sonny, Riverside Records (1957). Personnel: Sonny Clark, piano.]

Leonard Feather: He called me up before and I said I'd call him back.

Ben Webster: I ain't in no hurry Leonard, if you want to take care of something.

Leonard Feather: Well let's just finish this one.

Ben Webster: Okay.

Leonard Feather: Because I know you know who it is.

Ben Webster: Well, no, I don't know. And I didn't ask because I know the answer's "no," but I think that's Sonny Rollins.

Leonard Feather: Uh-huh. Well what is it about him that's distinctive if you think of it?

Ben Webster: Well I always did dig Sonny because, well I mean I'm getting into...because I like all the kids. But I mean with Sonny's coming on in the mid-40's, most of the kids had a small sound and Sonny always just tried to have a bigger sound. Now I can't say that that's him, I haven't heard him play... I don't have too many records, I'm embarrassed that I don't. I'm trying to pick up on that now.

Leonard Feather: Well nevermind, as long as you...

Ben Webster: But I don't know, I thought it was Sonny. And as I said, whether it was Sonny or not, I've always admired Sonny because that's the way I think. I think the horn's a big horn and you should get a big sound. You shouldn't choke it, yeah? And he always just tried to get that big sound. My man.

Leonard Feather: Well you like the sound of whoever this is, anyway.

Ben Webster: Yeah. Whoever it is. Whether it's Sonny or not.

Leonard Feather: You know the tune?

Ben Webster: Huh?

Leonard Feather: You know this tune?

Ben Webster: I don't know the name of the tune or words. I know the tune enough to get through it, but I...

Leonard Feather: Well that doesn't matter, I mean you recognize it. Did you notice the piano player?

Ben Webster: No, you want to play it again?

Leonard Feather: Well, if you like. You didn't notice him enough to comment, huh?

Ben Webster: What'd you say?

Leonard Feather: I mean just notice enough to make any comment on him?

Ben Webster: No, I was listening to the tenor player.

Leonard Feather: Well I'll play the piano chorus, if you like.

Leonard Feather: You couldn't tell who it was, then, just whether you like the style.

Ben Webster: No, I like it. Sure, I like that. Sure. But I couldn't tell anyway.

Leonard Feather: Well how would you rate this?

Ben Webster: Very good.

Leonard Feather: Four, huh?

Ben Webster: Sure. Yeah, yeah.

Leonard Feather: Well, let me see. Now that's all... I think we have time for one more record. Here we go.

[Plays unknown song]

Ben Webster: Well I don't know.

Leonard Feather: Well regardless of who it is, does it swing? Do you like it?

Ben Webster: Yeah, love that. I mean if you could put an underdog on that, you see because this guy... I think that's Stan, I don't know. I was trying to...

Leonard Feather: Well does the sound correspond with the sound that you know, associate with Stan?

Ben Webster: Yeah, yeah. No, but I mean you have your eyes up a little there.

Leonard Feather: I know.

Ben Webster: Stan has a very round, beautiful sound. And he's a beautiful guy, I mean, you know. He plays some things that... I mean, you listen to a guy play, and you automatically try to anticipate where he's going. You understand he goes right there, you know? With a few embellishments.

Leonard Feather: Being logical, right? He's logical.

Ben Webster: Yeah. Yeah.

Leonard Feather: Well you're very-

Ben Webster: Maybe I'm wrong, maybe somebody else has come up with it, but I would say that's Stan Getz.

Leonard Feather: Okay.