Leonard Feather Blindfold Tests

Leonard Feather: And once again, greetings and modulations, this is Leonard Feather bringing you an hour of jazz. A very unusual show today. If you were listening last week, you know that we had as our guests, Stacy Rowles and her father Jimmy Rowles, the great flugelhornist and pianist and composer, respectively. And at the end of the show, I said that I'd like to stay over and do a blindfold test, which they did, and that's what you're going to hear now. So welcome back Stacy.

Stacy Rowles: Hello. Thank you.

Leonard Feather: Are you ready?

Stacy Rowles: I guess so.

Leonard Feather: Jimmy, you've done this before, haven't you, some years ago?

Jimmy Rowles: No.

Leonard Feather: Never done a blindfold test with me?

Jimmy Rowles: No.

Leonard Feather: I didn't realize that, well I'm glad it's a first for both of you then. So I'm going to play some records and all you have to do is listen to them and if you want to make notes, make notes, I got some paper and pens here and stuff. And just say what you think of the composition, the arrangement, the soloist, the recording, who you think it is, anything you want to say about it, anything goes. And if you are ready, you got the pencil? Yeah. You both have a pen, you both a sheet of paper. So, here we go with record number one.

[Plays "J Mood" by Wynton Marsalis, from J Mood, Columbia Records (1986). Personell: Wynton Marsalis, trumpet; Marcus Roberts, piano.]

Leonard Feather: Okay it's a very long count, I guess we can fade it safely now and ask your opinions. Who wants to go first?

Stacy Rowles: Well, I'll take a shot at it.

Leonard Feather: Okay.

Stacy Rowles: I don't know. I don't recognize the horn player right away but I really liked his sound. I like the modal thing that he went into. I like modal playing a lot but there's a point where it gets too much and too monotonous and you lose the melodic, I really enjoy melodic playing much more but modal playing is nice. I don't know, I thought maybe it might be Woody Shaw. But I don't know, I don't really recognize the player right way. Sounded great to me though, excellent.

Leonard Feather: Would you have four out of five, something like that?

Stacy Rowles: Oh yeah, excellent, yeah sure.

Leonard Feather: Jimmy, how bout you?

Jimmy Rowles: I would rate that very highly. And I thought of Woody Shaw. I haven't heard enough of Wynton Marsalis. I know he plays note perfect, but I think I've heard other players that I had the feeling that they played with a little more soul. I don't know whether that's the right way to put it or not.

Leonard Feather: Need more soul than Wynton?

Jimmy Rowles: Yes.

Leonard Feather: I see what you mean.

Jimmy Rowles: A little more of a natural unschooled. Is that the right way to say it? But I thought of Woody Shaw and...

Leonard Feather: How about the piano?

Jimmy Rowles: The piano, I thought of maybe the New York pianist, I think. It could be that Petrucciani? And it could also maybe be Ronnie Mathews, or Lightsey or...

Leonard Feather: Well, nevermind who it was.

Jimmy Rowles: I don't know, but whatever it was, it was very tasty. I like that record.

Leonard Feather: Okay. Well, I'm glad you liked it. As a matter of fact, Jimmy was little bit closer than Stacy because at least he mentioned Wynton Marsalis and that's who it was. It Wynton's album, J Mood, the title track from that album, his composition J Mood and the pianist was Marcus Roberts, I guess you probably don't know Marcus Roberts.

Jimmy Rowles: No I didn't.

Leonard Feather: He's a fairly recent addition to the Wynton Marsalis quartet. Robert Leslie Hurst on bass and Jeff Watts on drums. So, I guess neither of you heard that much of Wynton in person huh?

Stacy Rowles: No, I sure haven't. That one really...

Jimmy Rowles: Most of it has been like she has described.

Stacy Rowles: Most of the stuff they play that I hear is much more up-tempo and real modal, just real... it's fun to listen to but I don't know. It's just that one really stopped me, I didn't know who that was at all.

Leonard Feather: Well. I'm not trying to fool you, I'm just playing things I think will interest you, whether or not you know who they are.

Stacy Rowles: Is he playing flugelhorn on that or trumpet?

Leonard Feather: I think he always plays trumpet.

Stacy Rowles: That's what I thought.

Leonard Feather: I don't think I've ever seen him...

Jimmy Rowles: Yeah, he's playing trumpet, I don't think I've ever heard him play flugel.

Leonard Feather: Neither have I.

Stacy Rowles: And that sounded really close to a flugelhorn.

Jimmy Rowles: That's why when you had Art Farmer's name there, I knew it wasn't him.

Leonard Feather: That's right.

Jimmy Rowles: And Art plays it.

Stacy Rowles: It's sounded like a flugelhorn to me.

Jimmy Rowles: Yeah, he...

Leonard Feather: That's strange, I'm sure it's not a flugelhorn. It just said Wynton Marsalis, trumpet, and that's all I've ever seen him play.

Stacy Rowles: Yeah.

Jimmy Rowles: Yeah.

Leonard Feather: Okay, let's listen to record number two.

[Plays "Driftin'" by Herbie Hancock, from Takin' Off, Blue Note Records (1962). Personnel: Herbie Hancock, piano; Dexter Gordon, tenor saxophone; Freddie Hubbard, trumpet; Billy Higgins, drums.]

Leonard Feather: Okay then, we have record number two. Who wants to... Jimmy Rowles, you want to try first?

Jimmy Rowles: Is that Roy Haynes?

Leonard Feather: I'll tell you in a minute.

Jimmy Rowles: I don't know, I thought of George, the tenor player in New York. George... real heavy.

Leonard Feather: You know who he means Stacy?

Stacy Rowles: Coleman.

Leonard Feather: George Coleman?

Jimmy Rowles: Coleman. I thought of him. Then I thought of Mobley. And like she said, Dexter. But then the guy got a little bit too involved for Dexter, for me.

Stacy Rowles: That real laid back...

Jimmy Rowles: But he had the laid back sound. By golly, you've got me there, could that be Junior Cook?

Leonard Feather: Nevermind who it is, what did you think of it?

Jimmy Rowles: Oh, I liked it.

Stacy Rowles: Yeah, excellent.

Jimmy Rowles: Yeah, it sounded like a band, like either one of Blakey's newer bands or maybe something that...

Stacy Rowles: First thing I thought of was Blakey too, the Messengers, yeah.

Leonard Feather: Really?

Jimmy Rowles: Roy Haynes or...

Leonard Feather: Who else did you... Stacy what'd you think?

Stacy Rowles: I love it, I thought it was great.

Jimmy Rowles: Yeah, I liked it too.

Stacy Rowles: I loved it.

Jimmy Rowles: The piano player was excellent too.

Stacy Rowles: That kind of feel...

Jimmy Rowles: Rhythm section was good.

Stacy Rowles: It's a real nice groove. Nice groove, trumpet player had an excellent sound. Sort of Lee Morgan.

Leonard Feather: You think it was Lee Morgan?

Stacy Rowles: I don't know.

Jimmy Rowles: That what we first, both looked at each other when we first heard it start. We thought of Lee.

Leonard Feather: Well, I got news for you.

Stacy Rowles: Uh-oh.

Leonard Feather: Well actually, you mentioned one of the people that are on it, it is Dexter Gordon.

Stacy Rowles: Is it really?

Leonard Feather: It is Dexter but it's very old. It's Herbie Hancock's date, he composed it and played piano on it. And Freddie Hubbard.

Stacy Rowles: Freddie, that was the other one I thought that I...

Leonard Feather: Dexter Gordon. Drummer was Billy Higgins.

Stacy Rowles: Yeah, Freddie tossed around in my head too.

Leonard Feather: Bass player was Butch Warren. It's a tune called Driftin. It's out of I think...

Stacy Rowles: It was Dexter.

Leonard Feather: It was probably Herbie's very first album as a leader, Takin' Off, recorded in May 1962.

Jimmy Rowles: I thought of Herbie Hancock too.

Leonard Feather: How about that. You didn't mention it though. That's what often happens, you think of somebody and you forget to say it.

Stacy Rowles: And you say, no it couldn't be that.

Leonard Feather: Sure was. Well, that's very early, that's 1962, that's an old record but it still sounds good huh.

Stacy Rowles: It sure does, boy.

Jimmy Rowles: It sure does.

Leonard Feather: Well, I'm glad you enjoyed that.

Stacy Rowles: Absolutely.

Leonard Feather: Well, this is Leonard Feather with our guests, Stacy Rowles and Jimmy Rowles. And as you probably gather by now, they're doing the blindfold test live. This will appear in due course in DownBeat Magazine.

Stacy Rowles: Oh God.

Leonard Feather: This next one, I don't have too many doubts about what your reaction will be but, I hope it doesn't skip grooves because it's a very, very old record, an LP but let's see if we can get most of it anyway.

[Plays "Weather Bird" by Louis Armstrong and Earl Hines, from Louis Armstrong & Earl Hines, Vol. 3., Columbia Records (1951). Personnel: Louis Armstrong, trumpet; Earl Hines, piano.]

Leonard Feather: Well, we're lucky it didn't skip grooves after all.

Stacy Rowles: It sounded great.

Leonard Feather: We got the whole thing there, Stacy is that familiar to you?

Stacy Rowles: I think the last part, the very ending of it, I really strongly thought of Louis. I think that's... I wish that kind of sound and feeling was still here. I feel like I missed out on a whole bunch of stuff back then. Boy, I love it... this is great.

Leonard Feather: How about the piano?

Stacy Rowles: Piano player I don't know. Dad kind of threw out a couple of names and I couldn't tell you. I loved it though, it was great. That whole style was just great.

Leonard Feather: Any rating.

Stacy Rowles: Oh god.

Leonard Feather: Maximum is five.

Stacy Rowles: Well, I would go all the way five stars, yeah absolutely.

Leonard Feather: Jimmy?

Jimmy Rowles: I'd go five. That was Louis and Earl.

Leonard Feather: Do you know the record?

Jimmy Rowles: Am I right?

Leonard Feather: Well, I tell you what...

Jimmy Rowles: I don't know, I don't know, I've never heard that record, never heard them play that.

Leonard Feather: Well, what particularly appealed to you about it?

Jimmy Rowles: Well, I like the feeling and that was when Earl was getting away from too much of running notes together and getting into the octave stuff, the things that attracted me to him. Like when I started buying his Decca records and the things he did with Louis where he was... as he said, he was trying to play more like a horn. Some of those solos he put down on some of those records, when all of a sudden the band would stop and he would play. And he would play those octaves and boy, he's make you stand up in your chair, because I had never heard anybody play the piano like that.

Leonard Feather: How about your early reactions to Louis?

Jimmy Rowles: Oh, I loved everything I ever heard Louis play.

Leonard Feather: That's great. You're right of course, that's who it is. Actually I think it's the only duo record that Louis and Earl ever made. It's a tune called Weather Bird, written by King Oliver, who was Louis' mentor as you now. It was recorded, you wouldn't believe this, in 1928.

Stacy Rowles: Wow.

Leonard Feather: How about that for a record that's almost 60 years old and it sounds a fresh and exciting as it did the day they recorded it.

Stacy Rowles: Sounds great.

Leonard Feather: It's a nice experience for Stacy to be exposed to that for the first time.

Stacy Rowles: Absolutely.

Leonard Feather: There's an album called, Louis and Earl, all the great things they did, you know like West End Blues and so forth...

Jimmy Rowles: They have Laugh and Louis on there?

Leonard Feather: No, that's a bit later. Laugh and Louis'...

Jimmy Rowles: That's a great record.

Leonard Feather: Yeah, I remember that.

Jimmy Rowles: Everything on that, that's fantastic.

Leonard Feather: Yeah, that was a fun record. Now this one has Basin Street Blues and the one I just played, Weather Bird, Muggles, St. James Infirmary, Squeeze Me, Sugar... it's a beautiful album. It's the Louis Armstrong Story, Volume Three, in case you want to get it Stacy, give it to your father for a birthday present. Yeah, we're doing nicely yeah, I had a feeling that you would both enjoy that and I also had a feeling that Stacy wouldn't know the piano player. Anyhow, let's go on with record number four.

[Plays "Love For Sale" by Dizzy Gillespie, from Enduring Magic, Blackhawk Records (1986). Personnel: Dizzy Gillespie, trumpet; Dwike Mitchell, piano; Willie Ruff, bass and french horn.]

Leonard Feather: Okay, how about that one?

Stacy Rowles: That was definitely Dizzy. No doubt about it. But as far as the piano player or the bass player, I don't know. I thought maybe it might be Major Holley on bass but only for fleeting moment. I liked it though, it was great.

Leonard Feather: Would you say it was early Dizzy or late Dizzy or in between or what?

Stacy Rowles: Maybe in between to later. In between to late.

Leonard Feather: How's he changed over the years?

Stacy Rowles: Well, I think he was a little more precise in his notes earlier, as we all are. And the longer you play and the more you play, pretty soon the ideas happen but the notes aren't quite as precise as they used to be. But I still love his feel. He's got a great feel. It's great, his attitude is great. He's got a great attitude.

Leonard Feather: How would you rate it?

Stacy Rowles: Oh, five stars, of course.

Leonard Feather: Just for him, yeah?

Stacy Rowles: I mean for...

Leonard Feather: Jimmy, come on in now.

Jimmy Rowles: Well, I agree with her and I was just trying to pick out who the pianist was because his dexterity was very good. And I don't know who he was but he had a nice touch, especially on his solos. And the bass player, it was either the hall they were in, concert hall, made his bass ring a little bit longer. I think usually his sound isn't... it made his sound seem a little bit longer than is naturally is. So that makes it very hard to pick out who it was.

Leonard Feather: That's true. Not the greatest recording.

Jimmy Rowles: No. Do you think it was Cranshaw?

Leonard Feather: Tell you in a moment, do you want to rate it?

Jimmy Rowles: I'd give it a really high rating. I think that was a good record.

Leonard Feather: Okay, well it was Dizzy with a well-known team of Mitchell and Ruff, Dwike Mitchell on piano and Willie Ruff also plays french horn but he's best known as a bass player. And that was a concert they did not too long ago, I guess, playing of course, Love For Sale. So it was very recent, I don't know the exact date but certainly it...

Jimmy Rowles: Dwike is very fine, and so is, the both of them are.

Leonard Feather: I'm wrong, it wasn't recent. It was released recently but it was recorded live at Dartmouth College in 1970. So they must have just discovered it. So Stacy, you were right when you said middle period. It's not contemporary, it's also not very early. So Blackhawk Records just new released on that label.

Stacy Rowles: That's a real nice label, they're coming out with some really nice stuff.

Leonard Feather: Yeah, doing some good things, yeah. Okay, we have time for I hope three more records, here's one of them.

[Plays "Straight No Filter" by Hank Mobley, from Straight No Filter, Blue Note Records (1986). Personnel: Hank Mobley, tenor saxophone, composer; McCoy Tyner, piano; Lee Morgan, trumpet.]

Leonard Feather: Okay, do you want to take this one first Jimmy?

Jimmy Rowles: Well, at first I started thinking about Stan Getz. I started thinking about Stan Getz. And then I didn't know for sure.

Leonard Feather: Then you stopped thinking about Stan Getz.

Jimmy Rowles: Yeah, then I stopped. Then I started thinking about Freddie Hubbard for a while, then I stopped. And then I started thinking about Liebert Lombardo and I quit. And then I thought of Woody Shaw and then I thought Ronnie Mathews and I thought of the different pianists I remember heard in New York. I even thought of Joanne Brackeen for a minute. But I really don't know who it was. I enjoyed the record though, very much. They all played very well. But my mind kept going back to Stan.

Leonard Feather: That's strange, wow. All right, Stacy.

Stacy Rowles: Yeah, I enjoyed it a lot too, I thought it was very good. But I couldn't pick out any individual players on the record. I went from person to person trying to pick out some similarities and little nuances that I've sort of recognized from different players and the only thing I could come up with was some soft of, the saxophone player had a sound that reminded me of Stan Getz. But that's the only thing really I could come up with as far as naming the instrumentalist.

Leonard Feather: Could be Warne Marsh.

Stacy Rowles: But I liked it a lot, soloist was great. Four stars

Leonard Feather: Four stars?

Jimmy Rowles: I give it about four, yeah.

Leonard Feather: Both four? Okay. That the first time I ever heard Stan Getz confused with Hank Mobley.

Jimmy Rowles: Thank god I have it down, I was thinking of Hank Mobley too.

Stacy Rowles: Was it Hank Mobley?

Leonard Feather: It was Hank Mobley's date and he wrote the tune, it's called Straight No Filter. And McCoy Tyner on piano. Lee Morgan, one of your favorite trumpet players, Stacy. I'm surprised you didn't recognize him.

Stacy Rowles: Lee Morgan, I went trumpet player to trumpet player trying to figure out, who does that sound like? And I couldn't pick out anything.

Jimmy Rowles: It's so hard to out them all together, separate the...

Stacy Rowles: I couldn't pick out anything.

Leonard Feather: Especially when it's an old... this is 1966 I think and Lee Morgan, Hank Mobley was the leader, McCoy Tyner, Bob Cranshaw on bass, you mentioned him in an earlier record but it wasn't Bob Cranshaw, this time it was. And again Billy Higgins on drums. Well, main thing is you enjoyed it.

Stacy Rowles: I haven't heard Hank Mobley too much.

Leonard Feather: Well, he died not long ago as you probably know, recently.

Jimmy Rowles: I do know. I heard a couple of records he made with Miles.

Stacy Rowles: He plays beautiful.

Jimmy Rowles: Beautiful.

Stacy Rowles: Really beautiful player. Of course everybody plays great, so hard to rate.

Leonard Feather: I think we're going to get two more records in, here's one of them.

[Plays "Jazzin' Around" by Jackie Coon, from Jazzin' Around, Sea Breeze Jazz Records (1986). Personnel: Jackie Coon, flugelhorn; Johnny Varro, piano; Gene Estes, drums; David Stone, bass.]

Leonard Feather: Well I thought I might hang you up a little, Stacy I think you have an idea.

Stacy Rowles: Dad's waving flags at me, he wants to go first.

Leonard Feather: Okay dad, you go first.

Jimmy Rowles: I think Ruby Braff. Dave McKenna. Haggert and Jake Hanna.

Leonard Feather: No. I'll tell you something, it's that era.

Stacy Rowles: Yeah, it's definitely Ruby Braff, I can't think of anybody else. And McKenna on piano I'm almost positive.

Jimmy Rowles: I'm not sure about Bob Haggert.

Leonard Feather: How about opinions?

Jimmy Rowles: Oh.

Leonard Feather: You know the guessing is secondary.

Jimmy Rowles: Ah, we get into the guessing and you forget about it. I think it was very well played. Very well played.

Leonard Feather: It's sort of a different groove from what we've been playing up til now. It's sort of pretty much of the traditional side.

Jimmy Rowles: Very well played.

Stacy Rowles: I love it.

Jimmy Rowles: I like it too.

Leonard Feather: You relate to that kind of thing Stacy?

Stacy Rowles: Oh yeah, absolutely. That's more melodic to me, goes through changes.

Jimmy Rowles: I like all kinds of music as long as you can relate to it.

Stacy Rowles: And it's happy. It's up...

Jimmy Rowles: Yeah, very...

Stacy Rowles: it's very happy and great, I love it. I love it.

Leonard Feather: Well, I'm glad you liked it. Rating? Any rating?

Stacy Rowles: I go five stars.

Jimmy Rowles: I'll give it five.

Leonard Feather: You both give it five? That's remarkable.

Stacy Rowles: Easy. Easy.

Leonard Feather: I think Jackie Coon will be happy.

Stacy Rowles: Oh no.

Jimmy Rowles: Ah, that him?

Stacy Rowles: Oh no.

Jimmy Rowles: It sure did sound like Ruby Braff.

Leonard Feather: We were talking about Jackie Coon before the show remember that?

Stacy Rowles: I know it.

Leonard Feather: He is a big Sir bass trumpet player or flugelhorn I should say, he doesn't play the trumpet. He plays flugelhorn and that might have tipped you off, Because Ruby Braff play cornet doesn't he?

Stacy Rowles: Yeah.

Jimmy Rowles: You know what I kept waiting for?

Leonard Feather: And it's also a local rhythm section, Los Angeles musicians, Johnny Varro on piano.

Stacy Rowles: That's who I thought of too.

Leonard Feather: Gene Estes on drums and David Stone on bass. And it's an album by Jackie Coon that just came out recently called Jazzin' Around.

Stacy Rowles: It's a brand new album.

Leonard Feather: And I think I can well relate to your reaction because Ruby Braff plays that same kind of music.

Jimmy Rowles: The thing that I missed in the trumpet, was the interspersal of different songs like Ruby does all the time.

Leonard Feather: Yeah, the quotes.

Jimmy Rowles: I kept waiting for quotes from other songs and I said, well I guess Ruby just decided to play this one straight. It sure sounded like him.

Stacy Rowles: I sounded like Johnny Varro on piano too, it really did.

Jimmy Rowles: I'm not familiar with his playing.

Leonard Feather: He's a good swinging musician.

Stacy Rowles: Yeah I did. God, it sounded like Ruby, wow.

Jimmy Rowles: He can get over those keys.

Leonard Feather: Well that's funny. I was kind of glad I fooled you there because I got to tell Jackie Coon to listen to this show because he's going to get a big kick out of it.

Jimmy Rowles: Yeah, that... I really enjoyed that.

Stacy Rowles: That was great.

Leonard Feather: And now as they say, for something completely different.

[Plays "Perfect Way" by Miles Davis, from Tutu, Warner Bros. Records (1986). Personnel: Miles Davis, trumpet; Marcus Miller, various instruments.]

Leonard Feather: All right, that was our final record for the day. And our blindfold guest are Jimmy and Stacy Rowles. Jimmy.

Jimmy Rowles: Well, once is enough for me. Some guy with a big band that's playing, what are they calling it, fusion or synthesizers and all of that kind of stuff. And it's not my bag at all.

Leonard Feather: Yeah.

Jimmy Rowles: I appreciate it, it was well played. I give all of the people playing it full credit. They played the hell out of it. But it's just not my style that's all. That's all I can say about it.

Leonard Feather: Yeah, Stacy?

Jimmy Rowles: It was very well played.

Stacy Rowles: Yeah, I liked it, I thought it was good. Definitely reminded me of Miles because he's about the only one who's doing that kind of stuff now. I liked it. I mean it's not my favorite kind of music but...

Leonard Feather: It's not the kind of music that you would want to be involved in.

Stacy Rowles: No, not really. It's, I don't know. I would call it funk music myself, which sort of falls into a category of R&B rather than jazz. But it's selling jazz records and it's making people listen to jazz radio stations and...

Leonard Feather: Maybe so.

Stacy Rowles: And I'm all for it, I love all kinds of music, all diversities and my own personal taste is my own.

Jimmy Rowles: Yeah, I don't mean to put it down, it just was saying...

Leonard Feather: No, listen your personal opinion is all I'm asking.

Stacy Rowles: I thought it sounded good, it was a nice feel and...

Leonard Feather: What would you give it, around three? Three is good, two is fair, four is very good.

Stacy Rowles: Well it would be hard to rate, just in my own personal opinion I would probably give it three, three and a half, four stars.

Jimmy Rowles: I'm in there. Very well done.

Leonard Feather: Yeah. Okay well. It was Miles Davis' new album, just came out recently. The Album is called Tutu. That particular track was called, Perfect Way. What interested me is that fact that Jimmy described it as a big band, actually it's not, it's just Miles with all his synthesizers to make is sound like a big band.

Stacy Rowles: Synthesizers, electronics.

Jimmy Rowles: That's what I mean.

Leonard Feather: Oh, more or less.

Jimmy Rowles: All I hear was synthesizers and stuff. Like they're scoring pictures with three people now. Or one.

Leonard Feather: It's been a great pleasure having you here, hope you enjoyed going through this ordeal and...

Stacy Rowles: It was very interesting.

Jimmy Rowles: Very interesting.

Leonard Feather: I'd like to do it again I think I'll do some more blindfold tests on the air because a lot of musicians don't mind expressing their opinions honestly as you did and it's really fun to do. Thank you so much Stacy Rowles, thank you Jimmy Rowles.

Stacy Rowles: Thank you.

Leonard Feather: We'll be for you at some of the local clubs in the near future I'm sure.

Stacy Rowles: Yeah.

Jimmy Rowles: Thank you.

Stacy Rowles: Keep your eyes on that.

Leonard Feather: So until next week, this is Leonard Feather saying thanks again to our guests, so long for now, and thank you for being...

Jimmy Rowles: Thank you very much.

Stacy Rowles: Thank you.